Ancestral Vision on it's way?
Modern forum
Posted on Oct. 24, 2014, 9:18 a.m. by ExpectDragons
So atm discussions in regards to the banned list is overwhelmingly skewed towards the Jeskai Ascendancy combo however when the conversation moves onto whether anything will be unbanned one card keep is cropping up, Ancestral Vision .
Given that Treasure Cruise
is legal and i'd argue more consistent and than Ancestral Vision
which was banned very early in the format (think it was actually pre-banned) it stands to reason that it could make a comeback since ancestral is strong in your opening hand or first/second draw but beyond that is quite slow as opposed to the cruise being a good draw throughout the game. For example, delver decks haven't managed to break through into top tier as it needed good consistent card advantage as it can often run out of steam. However it does fill the graveyard rather quickly, so adding a delve draw card mechanic into the mix it's become a perfect fit with delver perhaps breaking through into tier 1. But perhaps a little too perfect, an opposing aggro or mid range player has to keep up with your board state which is fine but now your constant card advantage as well? skewing the meta much? So perhaps the answer here isn't to take away the fuel but to ensure the power level is balanced, so perhaps Treasure Cruise
out and Ancestral Vision
in to compensate?
Ancestral Vision is an interesting card.
On hand, it's downright unfair for a control deck to start with it and some gas in the opening hand. (turn 1 suspend vision, turn 2 bolt something, turn 3 leak some mana, turn 4 refill your hand.)
On the other hand though, it just sucks as a topdeck from turn 3 onwards. The cards either won't matter in four turns, because you're already winning or you just die, because you drew visions instead of a removal spell.
October 24, 2014 9:32 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #4
Tbh I'd rather see Glittering Wish banned out of anything.
It would reduce the effective count of Ascendencies to 4, it would force them to main board a win condition rather than Wishing for it, and I think it would kill a lot of the power without killing the deck as a whole.
As far as Visions goes it should stay banned. Cascade would get way too powerful.
October 24, 2014 9:36 a.m.
the only good cascade card for modern is banned. none of the other cascade cards are good in modern. it's possible the Living End deck would play it, but i don't think the result would warp the format.
the reason Ancestral Vision was banned from the beginning is because wizards wants modern to be a turn 4 format, so no decks should be able to reliably combo off before turn 4. the potential to draw 3 cards for free on turn 3 makes a turn 3 combo that much more reliable.
October 24, 2014 9:42 a.m.
No good Cascade cards? Pretty sure the majority of them are legal, including 2 3 drops.
October 24, 2014 9:44 a.m.
People will use any almost useless card if it propels a powerful card forward.
October 24, 2014 9:44 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #8
Ummmmm shuflw Pretty sure all of a Living End deck would disagree. While it's not a T1 deck, making a broad sweeping statement like "the only good cascade card for modern is banned." is just not right to do.
October 24, 2014 9:57 a.m.
Ohthenoises: pretty sure i mentioned living end specifically as the deck that would play it.
kriskurse: the only deck that plays any cascade cards is the deck built to abuse Living End . which specific cascade cards would you play for their actual effect and not just cascading? if you're going to build a deck with no other 1 or 2 drops just so you can draw 3 cards on t3, you might as well replace all the crappy cascade cards with real cards and play some Divination s, or now, Treasure Cruise .
again, my main point was that Ancestral Vision was originally banned and will probably stay banned because of combo decks. my secondary point was that the only deck that would maybe want to cascade into it is Living End . it could probably make that deck better, but wouldn't warp the format. The comment "I believe the power of cascade will keep Ancestral Vision banned" doesn't make sense to me, as only one deck wants to play cascade cards, because Bloodbraid Elf is the only cascade card worth putting into a deck not built solely around cascading into Living End .
October 24, 2014 10:37 a.m.
as for the OP, just realized vision has suspend 4, not 3, so my t3 combo win comment was incorrect.
with that said, i agree more with the OP. Treasure Cruise is a more reliable way to draw in delver and combo decks both, so they could potentially be swapped. i'd say it's more likely wizards sees the power of cruise and says "see, we were right to ban vision off the bat," and ban them both.
October 24, 2014 10:49 a.m.
I agree with shuflw on his/her last point saying that they might just ban both.....there is literally NO reason they should bring recall back in if they ban cruise they are both really good to where they are too good and should be banned. That is of course assuming cruise is as good as we think.
October 24, 2014 12:12 p.m.
You're reasoning is that treasure cruise is legal. That will change. There's no way they will allow Cruise to warp the format.
October 24, 2014 12:42 p.m.
The thing with Ancestral Vision is that it can go in "any" deck. Treasure Cruise requires that you have some way to adequately fill your graveyard for the "Threshold - this is Ancestral Recall " bit.
October 24, 2014 12:58 p.m.
Dalektable says... #14
Personally I hope that Treasure Cruise doesn't get banned, which I don't think it will, because I am thoroughly enjoying playing U/R Delver. It makes the deck SO much stronger. Also, OP, U/R Delver is pretty much tier one and if not that tier 1.5. It has been putting up results, especially now with the addition of Monastery Swiftspear and Treasure Cruise .
October 24, 2014 6:38 p.m.
JexInfinite says... #15
I expect the number of people playing Delver to drop after they've finished trying it out with Cruise and Swiftspear. That doesn't mean it's not good, because Delver is now one of the better decks.
I suppose we should all start playing around it with our sideboards.
October 24, 2014 6:55 p.m.
ExpectDragons says... #16
Could you provide a context in which a cascade deck would utilitise ancestral vision? Because for one you'd need to be playing blue or splashing for it which is not easy if you're playing three colour as cascade decks typically do. You're certainly not going to swe people splashing blue to play it with living end, that would ruin the deck.
Plus for it to have value it needs to be turn one or two, in which case what aren't you casting? Are you choosing not to play a T1 serum visions, bolt, delver, or hang back mana for the counter spell etc with the decision being all the more important when you're not on the play.
All this as opposed to treasure cruise which is being consistantly played turn 3 and still playable from then on as decks utilitising it fill their grave quickly. It also doesn't disrupt early T1-T2 plays, you're not obligated to play it early unlike AV.
kriskurse says... #2
I believe the power of cascade will keep Ancestral Vision banned. Just saying.
October 24, 2014 9:27 a.m.