Would You Like to See a Set Without Planeswalkers?
General forum
Posted on April 29, 2022, 11:59 p.m. by DemonDragonJ
Recently, someone asked Mark Rosewater about the possibility of having a set with no planeswalker cards, and Rosewater asked the users how they felt about that. Much to my disappointment, the majority of users said that they liked planeswalkers and would not wish to see a set without them.
I started playing this game before planeswalkers were a card type, so I imagine that the users who wish to continually see planeswalkers started playing the game more recently, and, thus, have never known a time when planeswalkers were not a card type. I, myself, am fond of planeswalkers, as I think that they are an interesting card type that adds new dimensions to the game, but I frankly think that WotC is giving them far too much attention from a story and marketing perspective, and, from a gameplay perspective, they have unquestionably made a tremendous impact upon the game; in fact, I would argue that they have warped the game and forever altered its course. The earliest planeswalkers were not too powerful, but then Jace, the Mind Sculptor was printed, and he had a tremendous effect on the game. I wish that I could say that WotC has learned its lesson about making planeswalkers too powerful, but they printed Oko, Thief of Crowns recently, so I am not entirely certain about that.
Again, I wish to emphasize that I think that planeswalkers are very awesome and fascinating cards, but I feel that they are simply receiving too much attention, and that WotC should use them more sparingly, to make them seem more unique and impressive. I recall that Mark Rosewater said that, when planeswalkers were initially introduced as a card type, WotC planned to use them only on occasion, but they were so popular that WotC decided to make them a regular feature in sets, which I believe was a mistake. If WotC could have planeswalkers in sets only on occasion, I would be very pleased.
What does everyone else say about this? Would you like to see a set with no planeswalker cards?
I would like to see some sets without them. It makes sense that sometimes big stories may not involve a Planeswalker at all. Lets get some storytelling from the trenches, instead of the weird, lofty Planeswalker perspective. Story can always be driven by "what makes this plane important?"... maybe a rare artifact? Maybe an important piece to the Phyrexian puzzle? Doesn't really need to involve planeswalkers right away. I too am a dinosaur who bought many a pack of Legends :)
April 30, 2022 6:12 a.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #4
I do find it a little strange that if Planeswalkers (beings with sparks that survived it being ignored) are supposed to be extraordinarily rare that every single plane we visit has one or more native to it.
Then again, look at Earth. We have +7 billion people. The likelihood of us having 1 or 2 is statistically certain. You - yourself - may have like a 0.00004% chance of being one (number pulled from the air just to make a point), but when you have 7 billion people, that number is so great that it's basically a 100% certainty that SOMEONE would be a Planeswalker.
As for a set without them? I'd be fine with it, although I'd call attention to this comment:
- bigboysdrinkmilk said: What is the purpose of making a set without planeswalkers besides saying you did it? They’re three slots on average, and I’d rather a planeswalker be in that slot than “over coated red enchantment number 56” or “unplayable blue sea creature.”
I'd rather have a mythic that is at least playable in EDH, than a mythic that is worth $0.01
April 30, 2022 1:42 p.m. Edited.
Just depends on how WoTC does it. But if I had a choice between another no-identity WUBRG chase-mythic or a more specialized planeswalker, yes; I would take the planeswalker. Or they could just go outside the box, and do what they were thinking with original Legends or even Dominaria
April 30, 2022 3:03 p.m.
I don't think that just removing planeswalkers from a set would mean that "better" mythics are made in their place. If New Capenna didn't have Elspeth, that doesn't mean it would have the magic christmasland card that fixes all of white's problems in Commander.
But yeah I'm with the sentiment that there's like three Planeswalkers to each set and five per core set, it's not a huge deal. And I actually have started to like the Planeswalker designs of the last few years. They've been willing to branch out after War of the Spark and I like seeing these designs more than the old five or six mana draw a card/kill something/ult paradigm.
May 1, 2022 12:34 p.m.
From a flavor/lore perspective of what I understand Magic the Gathering to be... We are Planswalkers ourselves ... and the legendary creatures and planswalkers in the sets help facilitate story telling attached to the game which is just too integral to the formula of the game... it would feel like having a set omitting spells or something it'd just feel off.
May 1, 2022 1:44 p.m.
wallisface says... #8
What format is this in-mind of? Planeswalkers show up generally as only 3-mythics per set, so from a sealed/draft perspective, they’re rare-enough that a lot of the time you won’t see them at-all anyway.
So, then why do you want a set without walkers? From a constructed-format-perspective, having one set without walkers won’t make walkers any-less likely to be used (from all the other sets in that format that do have them).
I’m really not sure what we’re trying to achieve here?
May 1, 2022 8:07 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #9
wallisface, I believe that WotC is simply giving too much focus to planeswalkers ever since they became a card type; WotC wants them to be relatable to the players, but they forget that, before the mending, planeswalkers were supposed to be distant and aloof beings who rarely interfered with mortals.
May 2, 2022 7:06 p.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #10
As you just said, that is before the mending. We are playing after it.
May 2, 2022 7:15 p.m.
wallisface says... #11
DemonDragonJ so, as there’s not going to be any game-change from excluding walkers, there has to be a solid story reason to leave them out of a set. Especially as they probably contribute positively to set-sales.
Keep in mind Wotc aren’t going to backtrack on what planeswalkers currently are. The only motive for them to not have walkers in a set would have to involve strong story-reasons, and have something hugely compelling in the set to keep sales-up. That feels really unlikely to happen imo.
They might be able to justify having no Walkers in Brothers-War, but i bet they’ll still find a way to sneak them in there.
May 2, 2022 7:30 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #12
TypicalTimmy, I am saying that the mending should never have happened, because planeswalkers are supposed to be distant and aloof; they are not supposed to be relatable to the players.
May 4, 2022 8:25 p.m.
Stardragon says... #13
Yes plain and simple.
I do not think every plane needs to have walkers hell at this point i won't mind a break for 4-5+ sets of being walkerless. I don't hate planeswalkers as a type (ik they hotly contested) but I do think there are way too many of them to often and the should only pop up every so often to make them feel special again and while storywise War of Sparks was a let down I though a set focused on walkers was neat and cool but it would of been even cooler if we didn't get at least 1 in the every other set prior to it and I think Strixhaven should of had more actually since it was stated that walker from all over attend to learn from the school though I get why they didn't.
So yes less walkers would be a good thing (im also worried there going to heavy on both colored artifacts and sagas but thats for different discussion)
legendofa says... #2
I wouldn't mind seeing a single set with no planeswalkers. It would have to be a self-contained story, and the plane would almost certainly be brought into the main story later, but one time would be an interesting change. I don't know if it would have lasting effects on Standard, but I'm inclined to doubt it. Planeswalkers should still appear regularly, though.
In a game about the interactions between planes, it makes sense that the main characters are the ones who can travel around and coordinate those interactions. This story started in Mirage, and planeswalkers were known to exist (albeit in a much more powerful and vaguely defined form) at that time.
From a gameplay perspective, it doesn't make a lot of sense to introduce a new gameplay piece with unique functions, and then prevent it from appearing. I think it's reasonable that at least a couple appear in each set. My personal sweet spot is 2-3, and the current set average seems to be 3-4, so it's a shade higher than I would prefer, but not egregious.
My biggest problems with planeswalkers are that the frequency of new ones is unrealistically high (based on the stated rarity of 1. having a spark, 2. having that spark ignite, and 3. surviving the ignition) and the almost complete lack of non-humanoid/bipedal planeswalkers, such as centaurs or kirin, both of which appear to be sapient biological beings. I know Azor was a Sphinx planeswalker, but he spent virtually all of his active story presence ineffectually trapped in one place.
April 30, 2022 1:45 a.m.