Mana Crypt: Powerful or just decent?
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on May 8, 2016, 3:05 p.m. by MagicalHacker
Let's say you had a copy of Mana Crypt, but for an unnamed reason, you couldn't sell it. Would you play it in your commander deck?
I currently have been testing it in all my decks, but it has yet to prove itself. It not only prevents me from staying under the radar, but it also puts me on a clock to win. So while the best way to win a game is by being sneaky and political, that's not an option when I draw a Mana Crypt.
So, am I crazy for coming to conclusion that Mana Crypt is actually bad? It hasn't ever killed me directly, but it deals quite a bit of damage to me in all my decks while making me appear as a threat, even when I dont have a big board state!
I think it is so broken that I dont allow people to proxy it when they play in our group so thats my opinion......on the other hand depending on your unknown reason i would be interested in it
May 8, 2016 3:12 p.m.
In my opinion it entirely depends on the type of EDH game you want to play, If your playing to win or playing in a competitive setting I think its a great card and its almost necessary assuming the decks are similar power level.. However for kitchen table or even at your local shop I would shy away from it because it puts a large target on your back
All that considered would I put it in my deck? Absolutely, because its a cool card and I could boast that I have one
May 8, 2016 3:21 p.m. Edited.
It's the best card in EDH. It's a card that converts the least efficient resource you've got into the second most important resource in the game in a hyper-efficient way. Your starting life total is 40.
May 8, 2016 3:26 p.m.
At first I was just gonna type "lol" and leave it at that, but I won't.
If you're looking to play fun, casual game of EDH over pizza and beer or whatever you and your friends do to relax, no, it's not "good". It either gives you an overwhelming advantage when you draw it, or if you've built your deck with too many colored mana requirements, it's not gonna do enough. As such, it isn't necessary.
However, if you're playing to actually WIN, and you've built a competitive deck, then yes, it's probably the best card in EDH. What's better than a turn 2-3 Purphoros? A turn 1 Purphoros. Turn three Prosh. Whatever. The point is, it's free mana, and allows broken shit.
TL;DR: If you don't think it's the most busted card in EDH, you aren't building your decks to win.
May 8, 2016 3:40 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #7
MirranTitan, I think what I'm trying to say is that resolving 3 CMC spells on turn 1 is good enough to make all your opponents want to kill you first, but not good enough to make it likely that you will win.
EmblemMan, I have been proxying it and was planning to buy it today if it did well in my decks, but I actually think I would be more likely to win with my decks if I replaced all my Mana Crypts with a basic land.
EludeMerlange, I think in competitive situations, it might still make you appear more scary than otherwise. That said, I agree that it is definitely a lot less than in other situations.
TheDevicer, life is a resource, yes, but so is appearances. Looking friendly and/or less scary than other opponents definitely gives you the upper hand in winning a multiplayer game. Unfortunately, you are more likely to lose the game to not having enough life or politics rather than not having enough mana. If you have lots of experience playing with it, I'd love to hear about why it's done so well for you.
In fact, another open question: How have you seen Mana Crypt alter a game of commander? If you play it, why are you happy/unhappy to see it? If you see it played against you, are you more likely or less likely to attack that person?
May 8, 2016 3:43 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #8
kyuuri117, yes the early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese, and that is THE defining difference between 1v1 games and multiplayer games. You said it "allows broken shit", but who said that enabling a powerful board state guarantees you win. In fact, from my experience, I have rarely sees the person who has the best boardstate on turn 4 go on to win the game.
TL;DR: The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
May 8, 2016 3:47 p.m.
This isn't meant to come across as condescending, but I don't think you're playing with high level EDH decks in your playgroup.
There isn't much politics in high level EDH. Everyone at the table KNOWS what every deck is going to be doing at it's best by what the general is. The plan is to disrupt whoever has the best start, but to also keep an eye on everyone else so that someone doesn't just combo off immediately when you're tapped out from trying to stop someone else.
If your table is Purphoros, Daretti, Prosh and Grand Arbiter, everyone KNOWS that purph wants to kill everyone immediately, Daretti is on stax, Prosh is on combo tokens, and Artiber is also prob on stax. Everyone at that table is running Mana Crypt AND Vault, and no one is trying to look unassuming because there's literally no point.
--
As I said in my first paragraph, if you're playing casual EDH decks and want to be the "second mouse", that's absolutely fine. But Mana Crypt is, and always will be, the best card in EDH.
May 8, 2016 3:53 p.m. Edited.
I have to admit kyuuri117's right on the money here. Life matters far less in competitive play where 70% of the decks playing are blue combo decks with tons of permission. You essentially have generals like Prossh, Purphorous, Karador, and a few others that aim to kill you using 'fair' magic while falling back on combos when needed. Others don't touch your life all that much.
People know what you're doing just from seeing your general. It's not difficult once you've played for a bit. It's very hard to convince people you're not out to get them when you're piloting Derevi, Zur, etc.
I do admit that if I were playing Casual magic with some $200 decks, I wouldn't run the card just cuz I think it's better to have decks with decently aligned power levels go at it rather than force the table into a 3v1.
May 8, 2016 4:10 p.m.
If the problem is staying under the radar then dont play it out until you need it? It costs 0 mana so you dont need to unload it on T1. Wait till like T4 and then play that 7 mana game winner instead. It's far better than unloading T1 and then sitting there with a really aggressive looking board but nothing to do with it. Occasionally I do the same with sol ring and others. If I have a lot of acceleration but no cards to turn that acceleration into a pretty convincing board sate then I just dont play them out.
May 8, 2016 5:07 p.m.
I'm with Chief. I'm often forced to slow-play Sol Ring and Crypt to make turns where I can push through something big but still leave up mana for reactionary plays. There's really not much of a downside to not playing one early. The occasional Wheel will fuck you up, but that's a risk I'm willing to take.
May 8, 2016 5:21 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #14
Alrighty, so now what do I replace them with? Mystifying Maze seems like one of the good utility lands...
May 8, 2016 5:44 p.m.
I mean, there's no universal replacement. If you're not looking to run a hyper-efficient mana rock with a downside, you could turn to a rock that doesn't have a downside. Perhaps you could run more Talismans, Signets, and other common rocks?
May 8, 2016 5:50 p.m.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #16
Basically, you want to plan your turns out ahead of time. And in a 1v1 environment, if you can plan out your turns without putting Mana Crypt down until you don't hit that land drop you need to curve out well, then don't. If you are trying to combo or lock them out within the first 3 turns, then who cares because you're trying to close them out quick.
In a multi-player environment, it doesn't matter, people will go after the person with the most cards in hand or the most permanents in play. You can talk people into doing other things, but most of the time, they're going to take out the player who they think they have the worst "game" against. So playing it out may entice some people into trying to kill you. But it will not be the only factor.
May 8, 2016 5:51 p.m.
It's an extremely powerful card, but I wouldn't play it in most of my decks. If you're playing competitive, you're probably running it, along with at least 10 tutors to always land your win-cons well before that 14 trigger clock matters. I don't run that many tutors, so it's not a card I would want.
But, if the only thing dealing damage to you is the crypt, you have almost thirty turns before it's an issue. This is essentially negligible for the early game.
For my meta, though, it's a liability. Games are low-power, with high power cards causing the entire table to unite against you. Games regularly drag on long enough and players swing for enough for the crypt's damage to add up and let a token deck knock you out, boardwipes happen a lot, and most players running black have the sanguine bond combo mainboarded, enough that it makes sense to avoid the trigger, even if you have the card. In this particular setting, Mana Crypt is a liability and Sol Ring and Darksteel Ingot are kings. This is not a universal truth. It's just true for this group.
May 8, 2016 7:26 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #18
This thread has definitely been an eye-opener for me. Thank you everyone for your input! Seriously, #Thank you!
Even though I often play Devil's Advocate in order to dissect the strength of arguments and really get to the roots, I couldn't agree more with all of you. In a competitive setting, you've got to hit the ground running, as an infinite combo or stax or mld doesn't show mercy to someone who is behind, but will kill every opponent indiscriminately. (That's probably why those strategies are so front-and-center for competitive EDH/Commander.) In contrast, in the majority of EDH/Commander games, where friends or strangers come together to enjoy playing the format, having Mana Crypt in a deck truly is more liability than asset.
Because of this, you will probably see another thread started soon, but this time asking about what are the best utility lands in the format and why... Just FYI. ;D
May 8, 2016 8:10 p.m.
I love so many things about this thread.
Not only was it a sincere thread with a reasonable question being asked, but people came to it and discussed/debated things in a civil manner, coming to good conclusions with no hostility. Thank you TO community for reviving my hope in humanity.
May 8, 2016 8:21 p.m.
readerrw07 says... #20
Its good, but not worth it's price tag, imo. If/when it gets a reprint, the price should tank since the main reason its so expensive is similar to the reasons for the Portal Three Kingdoms stuff being hundreds of dollars. Because there's like thirty-seven of it in existence because its never been printed outside of promos. However if I already had one, Id use it in my control-style decks or rock-heavy decks
May 9, 2016 12:28 a.m. Edited.
PepsiAddicted says... #21
readerrw07 even with a reprint (i really hope thers 1 in EM...) it would not go down much. if it goes down at all. its price isnt related to edh. the main reason its so expensive is because "its the best Moxen a lot of the time" (-Demagogue) and for that its actually pretty cheap. but i dont play t1 so what do I know
May 9, 2016 2:15 a.m. Edited.
readerrw07 says... #22
Well I think the situation is similar to Portal Three Kingdoms, with scarcity being the main facotr behind the price. While it'll never be dirt cheap, I doubt itd be that expensive with a reprint
May 9, 2016 2:47 a.m.
First Turn:
- Cast Forest
- Cast Mana Crypt
- Tap Mana Crypt
- Pay
and Cast Sol Ring - Tap Forest for
, Tap Sol Ring for 
- Cast Oracle of Mul Daya/Explosive Vegetation
- Cast another Land
End of discution and, sometimes, the match.
May 9, 2016 3:17 a.m.
Second Turn
- Cast Mana Reflection
- Play another Land
Third Turn
- Eldrazi / Genesis Wave
If ppl still want to discuss.
May 9, 2016 3:25 a.m. Edited.
if you're running mana crypt you need a Krark's Thumb :P
May 9, 2016 4:16 p.m.
MirranTitan says... #27
nostafari the ideal turn is T1 Mana Crypt tap for 2, cast Krark's Thumb lol
May 9, 2016 4:26 p.m.
Krark's Thumb is a card which fits very few decks. Even with 99 cards, it's better to just take the damage than waste the card slot. The only way you will get enough "flip a coin" cards is if you're in mardu or grixis and building specifically for it.
May 9, 2016 7:53 p.m.
JohnnyBaggins says... #29
I will put the card in every deck that it fits in. Some decks it's not really amazing because the mana demands are very colour-heavy, but let me put it this way: Would you put Sol Ring in you deck if you had it? Yeah, you have it, and you do. Mana Crypt is a Sol Ring that's slightly weaker.
MirranTitan says... #2
Personally, I think it's so powerful that it's bad.
Sure, it can allow you to resolve 3 CMC spells on turn 1, but late game, is worse than sol ring simply because it deals damage to you, while making it look like you have a ton of mana.
I don't think you're crazy for thinking its bad, it is bad turn10 and onward, but any time you draw it in the relevant turns, I'd say its excellent.
May 8, 2016 3:09 p.m.