Karrthus and Dragons
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Aug. 10, 2014, 6:07 p.m. by MetalTrsu
So I'm in the process of putting together a Karruthus deck. I usually scourer the internet for a couple of ideas on the deck building process for cards with sweet interactions or maybe it was a card I forgot.Sometimes I feel that it's hard to believe that there is only one way to build a EDH deck, or that there is simply an optimal card choice for 'Slot X'. But with Karruthus I think there may be an exception to that belief. Almost every deck I've came across has a creature list stacked with nothing but other Dragons, which i could understand it's a dragon semi-themed general (Giving all dragons you control haste), but the repercussions seem a lot worse.
With the new Legend ruling I could see the reason that people cut back on clones, or for the possibility that they put more in. Which in lies my problem/question. Why would you stack a deck full of dragons only for someone to clone your Karrthus, steal all your dudes and your own general, and at the same time, sacrifice their clone to keep your general? Am I the only one that feels that the Karrthus EDH deck with nothing but dragons is 'wrong'? (I'm not saying there shouldn't be any dragons, but nothing but a list full.)
GoldGhost012 says... #3
... What else would you put in a Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund list?
August 10, 2014 6:37 p.m.
TexasDice Yeah I know about it. And that's true, I guess that's valid enough.
GoldGhost012 Jund good stuff? Something synergistic. I mean just stuffing random dragons into a Karruthus deck just because he gives them haste doesn't seem very good to me.
August 10, 2014 11:09 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #5
There are two other Jund Commanders that, in my opinion, would be good for a dragon deck: Kresh the Bloodbraided and Prossh, Skyraider of Kher , neither of which have the greatest of synergies with a dragon deck; they want to be more focused on token builds.
You don't stuff random dragons in, you use dragons that will gain you an advantage with their abilities, regardless of haste. For example, there's no way I would run Ancient Hellkite over even a "weak" dragon like Flameblast Dragon , because Flameblast's ability is far more effective.
August 10, 2014 11:29 p.m.
Well I'm not saying I'm looking for a good 'dragon' general, I was just curious as to why almost all the list I find are stuff with Dragons, whether or not they're considered good or bad.
Though I must admit the reason for the sudden build of Karrthus is the abnormal amounts of Prossh's that have showed up at my local.
August 11, 2014 12:57 a.m.
HeroInMyOwnMind says... #7
While I understand the initial drive to create a 'tribal' Dragon deck, I think my opinion on that options reflects a little bit of your concern.
The decks you see are probably not as effective as they could be. The fact is, unless you are playing Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund as a means to get back dragons you own, the tribal aspect of the deck and the commander choice is sub-optimal. Even if you don't run into people stealing Karrthus, the idea of high cost dragon creatures and tribal are not very synergistic.
Most good tribal decks rely on numbers - Elves, Goblins, Merfolk, Knights, Soldiers, etc - and take advantage of low cost creatures to stack effects like Door of Destinies or Coat of Arms . You can't really do that with Dragons. The low cost Dragons are ineffective, and reliably getting a bunch of high cost Dragons into play seems unlikely.
The second part of tribal play is the way tribes enhance each other. Lords, special card effects, tutoring, token generation - there is not a lot of that in Dragon tribal. Most of the Dragons you would want to use are stand alone good cards. They don't really need or benefit from having other Dragons on the field. The arguement for the advantage of Karrthus' haste is also pretty weak, as there are cards that can do that for all creatures with a much smaller cost.
Even in decks with Scion the Ur dragon as a commander, the Dragon pool in your deck should not exceed 10-15. At the end of the day, you really can have too much of a good thing.
The very last concern I have, and this is true of all tribal decks, is putting all of your eggs in one basket. If all of your cards share a common word, there is potential for complete and utter lock down. In the case of Karrthus, he can provide that potential for an enemy every time you play him. Even in Sliver decks, you don't want to have your entire win condition based on having a bunch of Slivers with stacking effects on the field. It is too obvious, and too easily dealt with. You want to find a balance, where you have enough of a tribal theme to take advantage of the benefits they give to each other, but not so much that you are depending on them to have a numbers advantage to win the game.
Most of my opinion is based on at least a level of semi-competitive play. and can be completely disregarded if you are in a casual environment and just want to play Dragons, but even then, it should at least be considered.
TexasDice says... #2
Homeward Path .
It's always useful in any deck, even if you're stealing creatures yourself. You never want to run into those blue guys playing Bribery .
August 10, 2014 6:21 p.m.