Gitrog's whole combo is non deterministic /shrug doesn't matter though because a table will just scoop if Gitrog is going off

Cirridian I've found that it can be difficult to guarentee having a forest consistently to put the utopia sprawl on in this deck, but I'd encourage you to test it if you are interested in it. I would probably refrain from cutting a dork for Sprawl in the case that you are though, as we need the creature density to put NO/Pattern of Rebirth/Academy Rector on. I'd suggest cutting a flex slot instea.

Soren841 Gitrog's main combo is fully deterministic, you can always draw your deck with dakmoor + discard + Gitrog no matter what;it is the double shuffler-protected lines that are not, for reference. Please don't spread misinformation like that in the future

Kross33 Continuing from that previous point, yes, the rule does, but in a bit of a weird way; You can still fully deterministically combo with two shufflers in both Gitrog and Shuffle Hulk, full stop; But there are use cases for two shufflers in Gitrog that technically run into slow play, where you just let the first shuffle trigger resolve every time so that if someone has interaction, they can just mill into the second shuffle effect. A lot of play groups will let that use case slide, but it does technically run into the slow play rule at judged ev

sickrobot but technically you can always have a shuffle and nonland (or whatever it was) in the top 2, yes?

Soren841 yes, but you can continue to combo on top of the shuffle trigger anyway, and just let it resolve once you're far enough down in your deck, then repeat.

There was some reason why :thinking: it maybe is just because you can't give and exact amount of loops (I saw a reddit post a week or so ago so maybe u can now but that math isn't for me)

Soren841 Not being able to give a number of loops != nondeterministic/slow play, if you can't give a specific number of loops, that just means that you can't technically shortcut the loop, but it doesn't mean that the combo isn't legal, it just means that you can't shorten it under current rules. That being said, you can still give specific numbers for the gitrog loop, it just takes a lot of math to be able to give them, because you have to count number of lands left in deck.

Idk I swear they went over why it's "technically" not deterministic in the video w/ Leptys but maybe I'm dumb

Soren841 the "protected" line and end step sculpt can run into slow play rules and/or aren't super rigorously deterministic, but the main line is

Any tips or card choices for the breakfast/mirror matchup?

Kross33

Usually in hulk mirrors I tend to move more toward a slowerish build of the deck, as a lot of the time in hulk mirrors, multiple people will be threatening a flash, so the first person to cast flash is going to be responded to with someone else's flash, and then they lose, so the games generally turn into posturing and landing secondary threats that let you get your flash off uncontested.

Now that the theory is out of the way, these are the cards that I like in hulk mirrors:

• Aven Mindcensor stupid good in mirrors, it takes their hulk offline while keeping yours live, swings with evasion for Tymna, and also protects itself by making it super hard to actually find an answer for it by neutering tutors
• Crop Rotation + Boseiju, Who Shelters All as a way to force your flash through countermagic when people start having the mana to hold up countermagic every turn
• Depending on how you like to play the deck, you can also try slotting in Rhystic Study and/or Runic Armasaur

No, thank you!

Really cool as always to see what you've made of the pile, I would never have imagined this when I first posted.

Would Gaea's Blessing be better than Kozilek here because it allows me to play ad nauseam in this deck?

When kozilek is in your hand you're able to find ways to discard and therefore shuffle him back into your library (survival of the fittest, body snatcher, indirect via any protean hulk line or cast and sacc him with infinite or much, much mana available) . With blessing in hand you're stuck until you find a way to put it back into your library (just brainstorm pops into my mind here after a quick thought about this problem)