Scarab God on weird stuff

Asked by chosenone124 6 years ago

Let's say the Scarab God copies Kruphix, God of Horizons with insufficient devotion. What are the characteristics of the copy?

Does Angry Mob get his bottom ability copied?

If I copy Sakashima's Student, do I choose which copy effect takes precedence, or does Scarab God's "except" clause override copy clauses?

If I copy Shapeshifter will I choose a number every upkeep, but its power and toughness are unnaffected?

If I copy Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant, can it flip?

BlueScope says... #1

Please link all cards relevant to your question: The Scarab God

  • Kruphix will be a 4/4 black Zombie, although without sufficient devotion, its ability will prevent him from being a creature.
  • P/T setting effects are applied after CDAs - Angry Zombie Mob will have its bottom ability, but it will always be overwritten by setting it's P/T to 4/4
  • I'm uncertain about Sakashima's Student, so I'd rather not say anything ;)
  • Shapeshifter will always be 4/4, for the same reasons as Angry Mob will
  • a token copy of a flip card may flip, yes. You might be confused because of transform cards, which if copied don't have a back face and therefore can't transform, but flip cards don't have that issue - they can flip just like they're able to tap.
July 14, 2017 5:27 a.m.

Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #2

If a copy effect specifically says it either doesn't copy or otherwise replaces a certain characteristic of the original then it will also ignore any characteristic-defining abilities (CDAs) related to that characteristic. Because the copy effect generated by The Scarab God says "except it's a 4/4 black Zombie", this means it will not copy any CDAs related to P/T, color, or creature subtype.

  • Kruphix, God of Horizons will be a 4/4 black Legendary Enchantment Creature - Zombie who isn't a creature if you don't have enough devotion
  • The 2nd ability of Angry Mob is a CDA for P/T, so it won't be copied. It will always be a 4/4
  • If you choose to apply Sakashima's Student's own copy effect as it enters the battlefield then it will overwrite the results of the effect that created the token. It will be a copy of whatever you chose but also a Ninja
  • You have the right idea about Shapeshifter. It will stay a 4/4 regardless of what number is chosen
  • A copy of a flip-card will have all the rules text from both halves of the original, and a token is allowed to get the "flipped" status. The copy of Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant will be a 4/4 black Zombie while unflipped and a black enchantment while flipped
July 14, 2017 10:52 a.m.

Colgate says... #3

"613.1. The values of an objects characteristics are determined by starting with the actual object. For a card, that means the values of the characteristics printed on that card. For a token or a copy of a spell or card, that means the values of the characteristics defined by the effect that created it. Then all applicable continuous effects are applied in a series of layers in the following order:"

"706.9d When applying a copy effect that doesnt copy a certain characteristic, retains an original value for a certain characteristic, or modifies the final value of a certain characteristic, any characteristic-defining ability (see rule 604.3) of the object being copied that defines that characteristic is not copied. If that characteristic is color, any color indicator (see rule 204) of that object is also not copied."

So for each one of them we start with the effect that created the token aka The Scarab God's ability. So Kruphix, God of Horizons would look like this. Angry Mob would be simply 4/4 Black Zombie with trample. Sakashima's Student 4/4 Black Zombie with student's copy ability if you choose to not copy anything, if you choose to copy it's copy except it is Ninja in addition to it's other creature types. Shapeshifter you keep choosing numbers but it has no longer it's CDA defining P/T. Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant may flip. It stays Black, if it flips.

July 14, 2017 10:55 a.m.

Rhadamanthus says... #4

I wish there was a "like" button for Colgate's sweet Zombie Kruphix image.

July 14, 2017 11:07 a.m.

Colgate says... #5

Rhadamanthus, you can smash favorite button, if you have mtgcardsmith-account. I just made there account to demonstrate the rules interaction.

July 14, 2017 12:58 p.m.

Rhadamanthus says... #6

Yeah, but it'd be nice to have that option here on TappedOut as well.

July 14, 2017 1:26 p.m.

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