Can I activate mana abilities if my opponent has priority?
Asked by StopShot 7 years ago
Let's say I'm playing in a 4 player game. Turn order goes Player 1, then Player 2, then Player 3, then Player 4, with me being Player 1. I know Player 2 and Player 3 run counter-spells in their decks, but Player 4 doesn't.
I have on the battlefield a Lion's Eye Diamond and I am currently casting Wheel of Fortune. I would like to sacrifice the Lion's Eye Diamond while Wheel of Fortune is on the stack since Wheel of Fortune will make me discard my hand anyway, and so I can have three mana up after it resolves, but I'm hesitant, because I don't know if Player 2 or Player 3 will use a counter spell to counter my Wheel of Fortune meaning I would have discarded my hand for nothing. Instead of sacrificing Lion's Eye Diamond right away I pass priority to Player 2, Player 2 passes priority to Player 3, and Player 3 passes priority to Player 4. This is all while Wheel of Fortune is on the stack and Player's 2 and 3 have chose not to give any responses to the Wheel of Fortune. Could I sacrifice Lion's Eye Diamond while Player 4 has priority, since Player 4 doesn't run counter-spells making it safe to activate the Lion's Eye Diamond and float 3 mana while Wheel of Fortune is still on the stack?
I know activating mana abilities like Lion's Eye Diamond will not cause another round of priority to occur, but I don't know if I am allowed to activate mana abilities if I do not currently have priority.
mana abilities from permanents can be done only when you have priority, or while casting a spell.
activating any abilities of permanents is something that can only be done when you have priority, or the rules state otherwise. The reasoning for LED "only be done when you can cast an instant" is to further limit its power. As the proper way to cast a spell or an ability is to pay for the spell as the spell is resolving. And part of casting the spell, there is a time for mana abilities to be activated. But with the limit on when you could use it, you cannot use LED for mana while casting a spell. - don't know if this explanation was needed, just wanted to point out that you couldn't even tap a land for mana when you don't have priority.
605.3a A player may activate an activated mana ability whenever he or she has priority, whenever he or she is casting a spell or activating an ability that requires a mana payment, or whenever a rule or effect asks for a mana payment, even if its in the middle of casting or resolving a spell or activating or resolving an ability.
April 28, 2017 12:36 a.m.
Also worth noting. Player 4 casts Wheel of Fortune. You (player 1) activate Lion's Eye Diamond. Player 2 and 3 pass priority (they didn't actually have counter spells). Now Player 4 gets priority, because they have not had priority since you took an action (even though that action didn't use the stack). Now when they pass priority Wheel of Fortune resolves. It's unlikely Player 4 will do anything, as they didn't before you activated Lion's Eye Diamond, but they might want to counter their own spell now that you're handless (maybe they have Nivmagus Elemental on the battlefield), and they will have that opportunity.
April 28, 2017 2:11 a.m.
@Neotrup, That is incorrect. Mana abilities work differently than other abilities. Using Lion's Eye Diamond would be the equivalence of say Player 3 tapping an Island for mana once they get priority. Both abilities are mana abilities and do not cause another succession priority to occur as stated here:
Activating the Lion's Eye Diamond ability when I have priority would not give Player 4 priority again the same way Player 3 tapping an Island for mana when they receive priority would not give Player 4, Player 1, and Player 2 priority again. This is because the production of mana is something that can't be responded to and doesn't need a round of priority for every time you tap a land for mana. Same goes with Lion's Eye Diamond since its ability as well is a mana ability.
April 28, 2017 2:39 a.m.
You are entirely correct about how mana abilities work. What you are wrong about is what causes the top spell or ability on the stack to resolve.
116.4. If all players pass in succession (that is, if all players pass without taking any actions in between passing), the spell or ability on top of the stack resolves or, if the stack is empty, the phase or step ends.
In order for Wheel of Fortune to resolve each player has to pass priority after the most recent action was taken, not after the most recent object was put on the stack. As activating Lion's Eye Diamond is an action, it does reset the last time n action was taken. Because it does not use the stack, it cannot be targeted by Stifle. Because it does not require passing priority, you can activate another ability using that mana. Because it is an action, player 4 will get priority before Wheel of Fortune resolves.
April 28, 2017 3:18 a.m.
@Neotrup, So wait, let me get this straight, because I love to learn and you honestly have my attention here. If for example we took the situation you gave with Player 4 casting the Wheel of Fortune, but instead of me (Player 1) sacrificing the Lion's Eye Diamond I pass priority, and Player 3, once they get priority, taps an Island for mana just because they feel like it does that mean Player 4, Player 1, and Player 2 actually have to go through priority again in order to actually resolve the Wheel of Fortune all because Player 3 tapped an Island for mana which counts as an action regardless if producing that mana had any use in the first place?
I'm not doubting you, but I feel like I got to be misunderstanding something here, because it sounds kind of silly, I guess? I mean it seems like its exploitable, because lets say me (Player 1) was secretly teamed up with Player 3 and I have a counter spell in hand for Wheel of Fortune, but I want to see if Player 2 has a counter spell they would use instead, and if Player 2 doesn't use a counter spell, Player 3 could tap an Island for mana once Player 2 has given priority to them which would delay the resolution of Wheel of Fortune again and I could use my counter spell on it since I would get priority again, is that correct?
I mean its a trivial situation, but I want to know it for sure just in case.
April 28, 2017 3:42 a.m.
That is correct, and doesn't rely on you and player 3 being secretly teamed up, as team formats do exist, though being teamed up across the table is rare. It's also worth noting that anytime you pass priority with mana in your mana pool you are supposed to what mana is in there.
Raging_Squiggle says... Accepted answer #1
From Gatherer for LED:
10/4/2004 The ability is a mana ability, so it is activated and resolves as a mana ability, but it can only be activated at times when you can cast an instant. Yes, this is a bit weird.
"Activate this only any time you can cast an instant" means you must have priority when activating the ability. You cannot simply activate it out of nowhere if Player 4 currently has priority and has not put an object on to the stack.
If Player 4 puts an object on to the stack in response to your Wheel of Fortune, then you may respond with its activation once player 4 passes priority to you. However, that also gives players 2 and 3 a chance for their potential Counterspells.
If player 4 does not put an object on the stack and instead passes priority, then the topmost object on the stack resolves, this being your Wheel. You do not get priority returned to you again prior to this happening.
April 27, 2017 11:13 p.m.