Anybody Else Annoyed? The Potential Effect of Limiting Firesong and Sunspeaker
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on March 21, 2018, 6:42 p.m. by Braxlin
So with the news about the much anticipated potential Boros Commander Firesong and Sunspeaker and how it's availability is going to be limited I feel I had to say something. This feels like a major blow to the entire community as a whole. Like I get that Wizards wants to sell more boxes, more products, but it feels cheap. I know alot of commander players (especially myself) were pretty hyped about the Minotaur twins bringing something new and unique to the Boros colors as commander options, and I also know this piqued the interests of some standard players as well for a cool deck to build around. That being said, I don't think making this card a limited product helps anyone out. I mean sure if you get your hands on it, it will be pretty cool however it is a pretty hefty thing to buy into if you weren't going to or aren't the type to buy booster boxes. I mean commander is a singleton format meaning the rest of the bulk you get is kind of useless and just adds a lot of cards to people's collections. I think it's just unnecessary and if it's specifically aimed at commander players a promotion of this kind should be handled differently.
Idk what do you guys think? Maybe I'm just being shortsighted on this, but it feels like WoTC trying to milk it's player base for all it can without much effort. Like should this have been pushed on other cards for other formats can can make more use of all the cards, should it haven't been used at all?
Actually the more I think about it the more I realise how this showcases WoTC's lack of connection with their main player bases; Standard and Modern players. This tactic can't work in Commander because we don't need multiple copies of a card in a deck, therefore we have less incentives to buy this product, except for the only available copy of the card. This is a tactic that would work for modern or Standard players if they did like a couple of valuable reprints instead. They are the target customers for this kind of product, not commander players. It's like the forgot that when Modern or Standard win, WE ALL WIN. When Commander wins, it doesn't translate as well into the other formats. Sometimes Modern and Pauper win, but what about Legacy, Vintage, and Standard? What about the vast majority of the game? Wizards just keeps failing at their jobs and I can't ignore it anymore
March 21, 2018 8:08 p.m.
Agent_Fire says... #4
The problem is if it becomes a staple or really popular for a commander
March 21, 2018 8:08 p.m.
brandonsperry25 says... #5
Honestly, I am pretty mad about it. It is a dangerous game that Wizards is playing. It could result in some players bailing out on the game if it becomes even more pay to play. It also makes it near impossible to get a staple card for a playset if there is a limited quantity. Imagine if Liliana of the Veil was a buy a box promo. She could easily be double or triple the price of what she is now.
March 21, 2018 10:43 p.m.
multimedia says... #6
Braxlin, well said, but it's not only disconnecting players it's killing Standard.
Wizards needs to take a long hard look at how they're designing the main sets which should be for Standard. Currently they're not designing for Standard, but for Commander and limited. This approach would be fine if cards in sets for Commander could be played in Standard, but they can't. As a result there's an over saturation of Commander cards in sets that should be geared toward Standard.
Each year Commander gets it's own personal 400+ card set, Modern gets multiple personal reprint sets in Masters, but Standard doesn't get a set that's dedicated just to it. This is a huge problem for the game and players that like Standard.
I feel sorry for Standard players who wanted to play Firesong. I don't intend to ever play it, not my kind of card, but having only one way to get it with the set means only a handful of players will be able to play it. Restricting play to mostly only Commander as a one of which is not something Wizards should of done for a set that's suppose to be for Standard.
The next step with Wizards bullshit is making a mythic rare as a buy-a-box premium card or a rare like Vraska's Contempt, premium Standard removal that should be accessible to all players.
March 22, 2018 3:29 a.m.
Suns_Champion says... #7
I realized why else this whole thing makes me mad.
They intentionally made this card for commander.
They made this card a Buy-A-Box exclusive.
Because of those two things, the made it bad on purpose.
Because it's a BaB promo, and technically standard legal(right?) Wizards can't make it good in standard because if it was good in standard it would become super expensive because they're aren't many of them. Thus, like the Planeswalkers from the 'walker decks, they made it cost a ton and made the abilities clunky. That's why it's bad!
Don't get me wrong, I love the card, BUT:
- Why is it cmc 6??
- Why do only red spells get lifelink?
- Why do only white spells trigger it?
- Why no keywords?
- Why just a 4/6? Why not 4/7?
- Why cmc 6?
This truly shows Wizards lack of understanding of standard but more of Commander as a format, and Boros players within that format. Why make us jump through so many hoops? Why doesn't it synergize with itself? And CMC 6? Are you kidding me? Do you know what Boros is??????
Soulfire Grand Master costs 2, has a keyword, has a better lifelink ability, has a recursion ability(somewhat equivalent to damage ability), and is a 2/2 so has full power/toughness for the 2 cmc price.
WHY CAN'T YOU DO THAT AGAIN
How to fix this card:
- CMC 4, 2/7 abilities stay the same
- CMC 5, 4/6, "all instants and sorceries" for both abilities
- CMC 5, everything else the same, give it Prowess
- CMC 6, 3/7 "all instants and sorceries" for both abilities, Prowess
- AND PRINT IT IN THE SET
Wizards tried to do something special for Boros commander players. But they didn't do their homework and have messed it up, badly.
March 22, 2018 6:57 a.m.
I'm not intent on getting the card, but I'm disgusted. This sets a very bad precedent for the future.
Oh, for you Old Fogeys out there...remember Nalathni Dragon? Do you recall that it was once exclusive to an event long ago? WOTC faced severe backlash for their decision and it was since reprinted in larger numbers.
This is THAT event happening all over again! They have forgotten their lesson, even though they tout their 25th anniversary.
Such a cool card wasted on what technically is a cash grab. shakes fist
March 22, 2018 9:36 a.m.
Coward_Token says... #9
Yeah I actually laughed out loud in incredulity when I read it.
Mind you, I personally don't care much about Boros but this was damn tone deaf towards the relevant fans. I originally hoped they left the door open for it being reprinted but after re-reading the three paragraphs below the card they seemed to have backed themselves in a corner with the wording. Again. (cough cough)
March 22, 2018 9:40 a.m.
LittleBlueHero says... #10
Firesong and sunspeaker aren't bad. You are comparing them to a mythic rare and this clearly is at rare level of power and ability.
They made it a fun card to build around without being completely broken... I can tell you right now Soulfire Grandmaster would be nuts as a commander. There is a reason some cards aren't made legendary.
The BAB Promo is an odd decision, but here is why I don't have a huge problem with it (right now).
You have all pointed out that its a card designed for commander players. Most commander players are less likely to buy a box since we only require singles. These are both true for the most part, so who is buying boxes... like you all said standard and modern players, limited fans etc.
Most of the players buying the boxes have no use for this card. Its good and fun but won't likely be a standard or modern staple so guess what they are gonna do with their promo? Trade it away immediately.
Since this is a new route I can't say for sure its price tag will be the same as other BAB promos but most to all the other ones stayed pretty cheap. So the commander fans should be able to pick up a SINGLE they way they always do for a reasonable price. You really don't have to buy a box.
Sure it woulda been fun to open the cow bros in limited but it doesn't really bother me that much. There is plenty more for me to be excited about.
Just my 2 cents.
March 22, 2018 10:29 a.m.
Thescarabbob says... #11
I'm a little sceptical about "what if it's the next push", in that it could be , but what no one's considered is that this could very well be in commander 2018. Or any number of masters sets.
May 23, 2018 7:51 p.m.
DankStompy says... #12
Suns_Champion: its 6 cmc because it does a lot. only red spells get lifelink because of its 2 colors (red and white) red is obviously the primary one for dealing damage. only white spells trigger the damage ability because again, of its colors, white is the primary one for gaining life. it just plain wouldnt make sense for white spells to have lifelink, or for lifegain from red spells to trigger the damage ability. they just wouldn't come up often enough. 6 cmc is not that expensive for commander, 4/6 for 6 mana is fine in r/w colors, and it doesn't need keywords when it already has 2 great abilities. basically, you're issues with the card are unjustified and silly. not every card can be a "god mode" card and if firesong was too much better than it already is, it'd basically be the best boros commander by far.
May 23, 2018 7:59 p.m.
DankStompy says... #13
LittleBlueHero gets it. the rest of you are just complaining. nobody is forcing you to buy the entire box. and is it really so bad to get multiples of stuff as a commander player anyway? you do realize you don't have to limit yourself to just commander right? just buy the single and be happy with your new commander. if it were too much better, it'd be good in standard, meaning standard players wouldn't trade you their copies and/or the price would jump way up.
Suns_Champion says... #2
I'm mad I don't get to draft/pre-release it!
They really aren't doing us any favors for sure.
Will still get a foil for my EDH deck, but I would have bought a box still if they were in the boxes...
March 21, 2018 6:46 p.m.