Will the second mode of Vision Charm (naming gates)) make tapped Gates enter untapped as basic lands (of the chosen type), or will they still enter tapped)?
Asked by Ev1_ 2 years ago
The Question is pretty self explanatory. If one playes Vision Charm on its second mode naming gates and for example Islands, will gates enter untapped as Island or will the textbox remain the same, and they will still enter tapped? Does Blood Moon and Blood Sun work the same?
I also mentioned Blood Sun which interacts diffrently, see This link
July 27, 2022 4:33 p.m.
Sorry. Blood Sun works very similarly; it only causes lands to lose all abilities as long as those lands are already on the battlefield. A tapland will still enter the battlefield tapped because it has that ability as a permanent card as it's entering the battlefield. It will no longer have the ability "CARDNAME enters the battlefield tapped" when it's on the battlefield, but by then the damage will already be done.
July 27, 2022 5:03 p.m.
dragonstryke58 says... #4
Judging by the rulings on Blood Moon, effects that modify how a land enters the battlefield are removed as well. So basically if you have a static effect that states a land is a basic land, it will enter as a basic land of that type. Blood Sun has a similar ruling.
Pertinent Oracle Ruling of Blood Moon:
8/7/2020: If a nonbasic land has an ability that causes it to enter the battlefield tapped, it will lose that ability before it can apply. The same is also true of any other abilities that modify how a land enters the battlefield or apply “as” a land enters the battlefield, such as the first ability of Cavern of Souls.
So in the case of Vision Charm, if you declare all gates are now islands until end of turn, the gates should enter untapped, only produce blue mana, and you don't get to declare a nonwhite color for Citadel Gate.
July 27, 2022 5:05 p.m. Edited.
Gidgetimer says... #5
They changed how Blood Moon works about 2 years ago. It no longer makes lands with ETB tapped abilities enter tapped. Or I should say they changed the rules that caused etb tapped lands to enter tapped with Blood Moon out. They did this to bring it in line with how Blood Sun operated. There are no rulings on Vision Charm relating to it's land type changing ability (third printed, but second in oracle for some reason). But following the logic that Blood Moon does in regards to 614.12 they would enter untapped.
Blood Moon ruling dated 2020-08-07:
If a nonbasic land has an ability that causes it to enter the battlefield tapped, it will lose that ability before it can apply. The same is also true of any other abilities that modify how a land enters the battlefield or apply “as” a land enters the battlefield, such as the first ability of Cavern of Souls.
Blood Sun ruling dated 2018-01-19:
If a land has an ability that causes it to enter the battlefield tapped, it will lose that ability before it applies. The same is also true of any other abilities of a land that modify how it enters the battlefield or apply “as” it enters the battlefield, such as the first ability of Unclaimed Territory.
614.12. Some replacement effects modify how a permanent enters the battlefield. (See rules 614.1c–d.) Such effects may come from the permanent itself if they affect only that permanent (as opposed to a general subset of permanents that includes it). They may also come from other sources. To determine which replacement effects apply and how they apply, check the characteristics of the permanent as it would exist on the battlefield, taking into account replacement effects that have already modified how it enters the battlefield (see rule 616.1), continuous effects from the permanent’s own static abilities that would apply to it once it’s on the battlefield, and continuous effects that already exist and would apply to the permanent.
July 27, 2022 5:17 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #7
FYI, the answers given above for Vision Charm aren't correct. Only the Gates on the battlefield at the time Vision Charm resolves will be affected. Anything that enters the battlefield after that point won't be affected.
611.2c If a continuous effect generated by the resolution of a spell or ability modifies the characteristics or changes the controller of any objects, the set of objects it affects is determined when that continuous effect begins. After that point, the set won’t change. (Note that this works differently than a continuous effect from a static ability.) A continuous effect generated by the resolution of a spell or ability that doesn’t modify the characteristics or change the controller of any objects modifies the rules of the game, so it can affect objects that weren’t affected when that continuous effect began. If a single continuous effect has parts that modify the characteristics or changes the controller of any objects and other parts that don’t, the set of objects each part applies to is determined independently.
Yesterday says... #1
Effects that change what a permanent on the battlefield is don't change that pwrmanent's own text that changes how it enters the battlefield. IE, if you have a resolved Vision Charm's third mode (naming Mountain), or a Blood Moon, and a player plays a Citadel Gate, (that player will choose a nonwhite colour and) it will enter tapped as a Mountain.
July 27, 2022 3:50 p.m.