Will Copying a Spell Cause Ral, Storm Conduit's Ability to Trigger Once or Twice?

Asked by DemonDragonJ 4 years ago

If a player controls Ral, Storm Conduit , casts an instant or sorcery spell, and then copies that spell, will Ral's triggered ability trigger once or twice?

Gidgetimer says... Accepted answer #1

Depending on how you copy it you will either get 2 or 3 total Ral triggers.

If you use an ability such as -2ing Ral, Storm Conduit and then casting Lightning Bolt you will get 2 triggers. One for casting Lightning Bolt and one for making a copy.

If you copy via an instant or sorcery such as casting Lightning Bolt and then Fork it you will get 3 total triggers. One for casting Lightning Bolt , one for casting Fork , and one for making a copy.

December 10, 2019 9:54 p.m.

DemonDragonJ says... #2

Gidgetimer, that is very good to know; also, what if I use Riku of Two Reflections ' ability to copy an instant or sorcery spell? How will that ability interact with Ral's ability?

December 10, 2019 9:57 p.m.

Gidgetimer says... #3

Since it is an ability making a copy you will not get a trigger for the ability, but will for making the copy. Using Lightning Bolt as an example again, you will get two total triggers one for casting the Lightning Bolt and one for making the copy. Since the thing making the copy was not an instant or sorcery, you will not get a Ral trigger from the Riku trigger, but you will get one for the copy being created.

December 10, 2019 10:03 p.m.

DemonDragonJ says... #4

Gidgetimer, that is very nice, and, if I use Ral's third ability, I presume that his first ability would trigger three times (once for casting the spell, once for copying it with Ral's ability, and then once more for copying it with Riku's ability)?

December 10, 2019 10:24 p.m.

Gidgetimer says... #5


December 10, 2019 10:28 p.m.

DemonDragonJ says... #6

Gidgetimer, thank you very much.

December 10, 2019 10:32 p.m.

lXTensionXl says... #7

Gidgetimer But wait a sec, wouldn't it trigger 4 times?

Scenario: You trigger Ral, Storm Conduit's -2 ability. Then you cast Lightning Bolt (1st trigger). The -2 ability triggers because of casting Lightning Bolt (2nd trigger). Then you cast Fork (3rd trigger). Lastly, Fork creates a copy of Lightning Bolt (4th trigger). And when you cast the copy of Lightning Bolt, wouldn't that actually be a 5th trigger? Man I hope someone can clear this up for me lol

June 10, 2024 2:30 p.m.

Gidgetimer says... #8

None of the scenarios above asked about the -2 and Fork. This scenario would indeed trigger Ral, Storm Conduit 4 times. (casting Lightning Bolt and Fork and copies made from -2 and from Fork).

I'm not sure where you are getting five triggers from. Are you wondering about -2, Fork, and Riku of Two Reflections? Because at that point the best strategic choice is just to copy the Fork instead of the Lightning Bolt with Riku and just make infinite copies by forking your Fork repeatedly.

June 10, 2024 7:21 p.m.

lXTensionXl says... #9

Gidgetimer I was going off your 1st response where you said the combination of his -2, Lightning Bolt, and Fork would only trigger his passive 3 times. I'm still pretty new to MTG, and thought that it should trigger his passive 4 times. I was thinking possibly a 5th because of when you get the copy of Lightning Bolt from casting Fork, and then you cast it. But I guess it wouldn't be considered a cast if it was a copy that was created and placed on the stack?

So in my mind, it would be:

  1. Active his -2 ability
  2. Cast Lightning Bolt (1st trigger)
  3. A copy is made from his -2 ability (2nd trigger)
  4. Cast Fork that targets Lightning Bolt (3rd trigger)
  5. A copy is made of Lightning Bolt by Fork (4th trigger)
  6. My questionable 5th trigger was then "casting" Lightning Bolt after the copy is made
June 11, 2024 7:40 a.m.

Gidgetimer says... #10

Oh, I see where the confusion is. I didn't say the combination of the -2, Lightning Bolt, and Fork gave three triggers. I said that copying Lightning Bolt with the -2 gave two triggers. Then I said that copying Lightning Bolt via Fork gives three total triggers. They were two different thoughts explaining Ral, Storm Conduit triggers based on how you copy a spell. I guess I could have been more clear by using a different ability, like Lithoform Engine, as an example. This would have made it more clear that there wasn't an assumption of the -2 in both scenarios.

You are correct about there being four triggers with the -2 AND Fork. Copies of spells are not cast, they are simply created on the stack. Some abilities, like on Isochron Scepter, let you make copies of cards not on the stack and then cast them. These abilities will trigger Ral from casting, but they will not trigger it from copying the card (since what was copied was not a spell.)

June 11, 2024 5:09 p.m.

lXTensionXl says... #11

Gidgetimer Thanks a lot for the explanation. Makes a ton more sense to me now.

Have a good one :)

June 12, 2024 7:21 a.m.

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