Hidden Strings Mana Ramp Possible?
Asked by 10milesfromhome 11 years ago
My partner has been musing over making some kind of mana boosting deck using Hidden Strings. He's been asking me if it's possible for him to tap all his mana so that his "mana pool" is full and then, using Hidden Strings, untap the land to tap it all again to increase how much mana you have, allowing you to cast very big creatures very early. Could someone please confirm so that I can tell him/refuse to play against that deck ever?
106.4. When an effect produces mana, that mana goes into a player's mana pool. From there, it can be used to pay costs immediately, or it can stay in the player's mana pool. Each player's mana pool empties at the end of each step and phase
So it is a yes/no type thing if he casts the spell than he could untap some lands to tap again for mana, however if he were to tap lands for mana, and not use it when he goes into combat step that mana depletes and the cipher ability would untap them (if it went through) which would in a sense be back to square 1
May 13, 2013 5:04 a.m.
RussischerZar says... #5
There's still some kind of use if you cast something cheap(er) pre-combat and maybe have something like a Gilded Lotus to untap.
May 13, 2013 5:47 a.m.
Another way to do it like #5 suggested would be in a simic deck with Gyre Sage or possibly some defender-heavy deck based around axebane guardian, doorkeepers, et cetera. As long as you have enough counters or enough guardians out that you net a profit after the tapping/untapping you can either get a ramp in one phase or ramp in total mana for the turn depending on how you were able to play it.
May 13, 2013 6:02 a.m.
Also, having Yeva, Nature's Herald or Hypersonic Dragon in play can give you more flexibility with when you play your spells, to make up for the lack of flexibility regarding when you get your mana.
May 13, 2013 9:09 a.m.
And if he's not aiming for Standard-legal, two of the previously-mentioned cards that prevent the mana from depleting when steps and phases end are Upwelling and Omnath, Locus of Mana (green-mana only). Omnath only works for its controller but restricts it to green, while Upwelling works for everyone. The other similar cards are all green-specific, and only for just a bit of the mana until end of turn (Shizuko, Caller of Autumn for example).
May 13, 2013 3:10 p.m.
I think everyone has missed something that should be dead obvious. [Hidden Strings] has Cipher. "Cipher (Then you may exile this spell card encoded on a creature you control. Whenever that creature deals combat damage to a player, its controller may cast a copy of the encoded card without paying its mana cost."
AND that means that you can cast [Hidden Strings], say on [Invisible Stalker] untap the two mana spent using the effect, then tap all your land, then attack with [Invisible Stalker], untap and then retap two lands and ramp. So yes, you can ramp with [Hidden Strings]
June 3, 2014 12:38 a.m.
kamarupa, no one here forgot about Cipher, the fact remains that mana empties at the end of steps. So if you tap five lands in pre-combat main, cast Hidden Strings , untap two lands, then proceed into the Combat Phase, you have just emptied your mana pool, unless an effect allows you to keep mana through phases, like the new card Kruphix, God of Horizons .
Also, please try to avoid reviving threads that are over a year old. Luckily, this is in the Q&A, so it shouldn't cause too much trouble.
June 3, 2014 9:11 p.m.
oh. huh. I hadn't heard that your mana pool only accumulated during a single step. Sorry. That sucks. I didn't mean to be authoritative - I was really looking for how the card Hidden Strings worked and, since I couldn't find anything, I went with my assumption that it would work. Again, sorry for misinformation, etc. I'm still really new to Magic and there isn't a very good information base where I live.
And sorry again, but why is it bad ot revive old treads? Just trying to understand.
Denial048 says... Accepted answer #1
You can untap lands using Hidden Strings , as lands are permanents along with everything else on the battlefield.
However, mana empties out of your mana pool at the end of each step, so, for instance, on his turn he taps out to put 5 mana in his pool, casts Hidden Strings to untap 2 lands, taps those to put his pool at 5 again, then procedes to the combat phase to cast the Ciphered copy, his mana pool will empty.
There is a card/cards that prevent mana emptying from your mana pool, none in Standard at the moment, and I don't recall the names of them at the moment.
May 13, 2013 5 a.m.