Harmonic Prodigy and triggered abilities
Asked by Clyde96 3 years ago
Hi, I'm building a wizards tribal prowess deck and I want to include Harmonic Prodigy but I have some questions regarding its second ability:
1.) From what I understand, if I have Harmonic Prodigy on the board, my other wizards with prowess will get +1/+1 and then trigger again for a total of +2/+2 for each instant/sorcery cast. I assume the same goes for Adeliz, the Cinder Wind's second ability, she will buff herself and the other wizards +2/+2 for each instant/sorcery.
2.) What would happen if I had a Soul-Scar Mage and a Harmonic Prodigy and I used Lightning Bolt to some creature. Would it get -3/-3 or -6/-6 counters due to the ability triggering a second time?
3.) And what about Eruth, Tormented Prophet's ability. Would I get to exile 2 or 4 cards if I had Harmonic Prodigy on the battlefield and I draw a card?
Thank you in advance!
Nice. Thanks for the answer! It seems like a good card to use even if it's just for giving double prowess and Adeliz.
So, I assume that if I had Symmetry Sage and Harmonic Prodigy and I cast a sorcery/instant, Sage will trigger twice as it's a trigger ability (Whenever) and she can give base power 2 to herself and also to Prodigy, so they will end up being: Symmetry a 2/2 and Prodigy a 3/4 (because of her own Prowess). Right?
December 18, 2021 11:57 a.m.
Yes, magecraft is a triggered ability and will work like that.
December 18, 2021 12:11 p.m.
It can also be a lot of fun with things like Irencrag Pyromancer, Conspiracy Theorist, Dreadhorde Arcanist, Incursion Specialist, etc.
December 18, 2021 1:27 p.m.
Nice recommendations!
And what would happen if I had multiple Harmonic Prodigy? Let's say I have two and another creature with Prowess. Would that creature's prowess trigger one additional time or two times for each sorcery/instant cast?
December 18, 2021 3:36 p.m.
Omniscience_is_life says... #6
Replacement effects can "stack"--that is, both apply to the same event--so you would get two additional prowess triggers for all your noncreature spells.
December 18, 2021 4:18 p.m.
Nice! So then, if I had two Soul-Scar Mage, which has a replacement effect, why wouldn't they "stack" and give twice the -X/-X counters?
December 19, 2021 2:53 a.m.
Omniscience_is_life says... #8
Here's a note from the ruling on replacement effects:
614.6. If an event is replaced, it never happens. A modified event occurs instead, which may in turn trigger abilities. Note that the modified event may contain instructions that can’t be carried out, in which case the impossible instruction is simply ignored.
So since the second SSM is looking for a source dealing damage, and that damage event has been replaced by the first, it can't stack onto it. This is in direct contrast to Harmonic Prodigy, whose ability replaces the one trigger from shamans and wizards with two--and the second can still "see" that event and stack onto it.
December 19, 2021 3:23 a.m.
OK. So in that last scenario wouldn't the second Harmonic Prodigy "see" the two triggers from a Wizard due to the first Prodigy and make them trigger two additional times?
December 19, 2021 3:32 a.m.
A replacement effect can't apply to an event more than once. If they did, Harmonic Prodigy would infinite loop with just one copy of itself (as would a lot of similar increasing effects, like Doubling Season).
So the "event" here is a Wizard or Shaman triggering. Both Prodigies apply, so you apply one first, changing the event to the Wizard triggering twice, then the other changes it to triggering three times.
December 19, 2021 11:32 a.m.
That makes sense.
Thank you for clarifying all the possible situations I could think of! You guys are so helpful ;)
December 19, 2021 11:50 a.m.
Hey guys! What would happen if I had a Harmonic Prodigy in the field and I play Overwhelmed Apprentice? As I understand the come into play ability from Overwhelmed Apprentice is a trigger ability ("when"), the trigger being it coming into play. So I think it would trigger twice and the opponent would have to put 4 cards into the graveyard and I would first scry 2 and then scry 2 again. Is this correct?
January 3, 2022 6:07 a.m.
That's mostly correct. It will trigger twice, but you follow the steps in order on each resolution (they mill 2, you scry 2, then there's a chance to respond, then they mill 2, you scry 2).
January 3, 2022 9:53 a.m.
Regarding the trigger vs the replacement. Both Eruth's and Soul-Scar's replace effect will go of twice when you have a harmonic in play as well. Making you do the instead twice. So, Eruth will make you put 4 cards in exile and Soul-scare place two minus counters.
January 24, 2022 8:45 a.m.
Really? I don't think it works that way. As these guys explained above, only triggered abilities would trigger twice and not replacement effects.
January 30, 2022 3:54 a.m.
Only the triggers that are replaced won't go off. Harmonic Prodigy does not specify which trigger it is waiting for, only whos trigger. So for Eruth you won't get a draw trigger but you do get two replacement triggers.
January 30, 2022 3:55 p.m.
HarHar Replacement effects aren't triggered abilities. They modify an event as it's occurring (without using the stack), while triggered abilities wait for an event to occur and then trigger and go on the stack. A triggered ability takes place separate from and after the event that triggered it, while a replacement effect takes place as part of the event it modifies. I like to explain it like rewriting the event: "The prowess ability triggers (Harmonic Prodigy: it actually triggers twice)."
Harmonic Prodigy replaces the event of a Wizard or Shaman's ability triggering with the event of it triggering and triggering an additional time. Multiple Harmonic Prodigies stack together because the event that results from their replacement effect is still an event they can affect (a Wizard triggering twice still qualifies as a Wizard triggering).
Since Soul-Scar Mage's -1/-1 counter ability is a replacement effect, Prodigy doesn't apply. However, if you just have two in play, they still don't stack because the effect replaces damage with not-damage. Once one SSM replaces the damage with -1/-1 counters, the second SSM no longer has a damage event to replace.
Polaris says... Accepted answer #1
1) Yes, that's correct. Prowess is a triggered ability, so it will trigger twice. Adeliz's ability is similar.
2) Soul-Scar Mage's second ability is a replacement effect. It's not a triggered ability and doesn't use the stack, and Harmonic Prodigy doesn't affect it. Triggered abilities give a time (when, whether, at the beginning of, etc). Replacement effects are written "if X, Y instead" and replace the event they refer to as it happens - the original event doesn't happen at all, only the replacement event. By contrast, a triggered ability waits for the event to happen and then does something afterward.
3) Eruth, Tormented Prophet's ability is also a replacement effect ("if you would draw a card, exile the top two cards of your library instead"). Harmonic Prodigy doesn't apply.
December 18, 2021 9:12 a.m.