Undying Evil Rule Question

General forum

Posted on Feb. 5, 2012, 9:46 p.m. by zxman1000

If I were to cast Undying EvilMTG Card: Undying Evil on a creature i control and then sacrifice that creature to boost Bloodthrone VampireMTG Card: Bloodthrone Vampire then use my Hex ParasiteMTG Card: Hex Parasite to remove the +1+1 counter can I sacrifice it again (in the same turn) and have it still come back? Basically does Undying EvilMTG Card: Undying Evil effect wear off after one use or does it continue until end of turn no matter how many times the creature dies? Thank You in advance for clearing this up for me. I would like to build a deck around this idea but want to make sure I am understanding the effect rules properly.

macoling729 says... #2

If the +1/+1 counters are gone they come back

February 5, 2012 9:55 p.m.

KorApprentice says... #3

Once a permanent leaves the battlefield, it will have no memory of its previous existence. Basically, once the creature goes to the graveyard and is brought back by undying, it will become a new permanent without undying. From the MTG Comprehensive Rulebook:

400.7. An object that moves from one zone to another becomes a new object with no memory of, or relation to, its previous existence.

February 5, 2012 10:09 p.m.

zxman1000 says... #4

Well that idea flew away as quickly as I had it. I was hoping to pair it up with Priest of GixMTG Card: Priest of Gix to create a never ending cycle that would not only boost my Bloodthrone VampireMTG Card: Bloodthrone Vampire but also give me an extra Black mana every cycle.

Now this plan will work on a card that itself has undying such as Geralf's MessengerMTG Card: Geralf's Messenger because as long as the +1/+1 counter is removed it will keep coming back correct. Also I will do the direct 2 damage per a cycle.

February 5, 2012 11:37 p.m.

QuentinD says... #5

Crafty.

February 6, 2012 12:22 a.m.

Jewrummer says... #6

Just add Mikaeus, the UnhallowedMTG Card: Mikaeus, the Unhallowed to the mix for your combo to work

February 6, 2012 2:37 a.m.

Cyber Locc says... #7

Once a permanent leaves the battlefield, it will have no memory of its previous existence. Basically, once the creature goes to the graveyard and is brought back by undying, it will become a new permanent without undying. From the MTG Comprehensive Rulebook:

this being true makes undying evil not work at all if it goes to the grave then it has no memory then neither does it have the memory of the first undying evil except the fact that the spells effect continues through out the turn thus the spells effect should still work because the spell is still in play until the end of turn the creature may forget but the spell dont if i exile your creature and u sac it in response it still gets exiled right

February 9, 2012 8:04 p.m.

KorApprentice says... #8

Undying is an ability that triggers from the battlefield, therefore the last known information for the creature on the battlefield is used. When the creature targeted by Undying EvilMTG Card: Undying Evil dies, Undying will trigger and return it to the battlefield. So technically yes, as soon as it hits the graveyard, it will lose Undying. But that does not matter because Undying triggers from the battlefield, and the creature had Undying while it was on the battlefield. From the MTG Comprehensive Rulebook:

702.91a Undying is a triggered ability. Undying means When this permanent is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, if it had no +1/+1 counters on it, return it to the battlefield under its owners control with a +1/+1 counter on it.

603.6d Normally, objects that exist immediately after an event are checked to see if the event matched any trigger conditions. Continuous effects that exist at that time are used to determine what the trigger conditions are and what the objects involved in the event look like. However, some triggered abilities must be treated specially. Leaves-the-battlefield abilities, abilities that trigger when a permanent phases out, abilities that trigger when an object that all players can see is put into a hand or library, abilities that trigger specifically when an object becomes unattached, abilities that trigger when a player loses control of an object, and abilities that trigger when a player planeswalks away from a plane will trigger based on their existence, and the appearance of objects, prior to the event rather than afterward. The game has to look back in time to determine if these abilities trigger.

February 9, 2012 8:21 p.m.

KorApprentice says... #9

And no, if you were to target Viscera SeerMTG Card: Viscera Seer with an exile spell such as Path to ExileMTG Card: Path to Exile and it was sacrificed to itself in response, your spell would only look for that target in the zone it targeted it in. Because you cast Path to ExileMTG Card: Path to Exile and put it on the stack first and they activate Viscera SeerMTG Card: Viscera Seer in response, their trigger would go on the stack on top of your spell and resolve first. Then, since the creature was sacrificed and is now in the graveyard and not the battlefield, your exile spell would be countered due to having no legal targets.

February 9, 2012 8:25 p.m.

This discussion has been closed