Alternate Color Wheel!
Custom Cards forum
Posted on Feb. 3, 2014, 11:15 p.m. by Azmedeus
Hello MTG Community! I have a challenge for you! Well, more like I need some assistance and I'm curious what the community has to offer. There will be a lot of text here before getting to the final bit, so bear with me. I don't know how familiar everyone is with the official mtg color wheel that shows the five colors and their personality traits and what the conflict with for other colors. Recently, my friend showed me a second color wheel that was apparently fan-made with five different colors: Purple, Yellow, Orange, Brown, and Pink. The personal traits for each are as follows: Purple- Freedom (Thinking Uninhibited) and Imagination ( Thinking Creatively), they are creative, passionate, and willful. Yellow- Individualism (Sacrifices for One's Self) and Profit (Sacrifices for Benefits), they are dynamic, opportunistic, and selfish. Orange- Realism (Preservation of Sanity) and Naturalism (Preservation of Nature), they are resourceful, patient, and stubborn. Brown- Industry (Newer is Better) and Collectivism (Together is Better), they are dogmatic, hivemind, and industrial. Pink- Compassion (Caring for the Little Man) and Community (Caring for All Man), they are friendly, nurturing, and naive. Basically, me and my friends have nothing to do sometimes and so we wanted to create a set with these colors. Due to the fact that we'd rather start with the new 5 rather than 10 total colors, it'll be a Core Set (Meaning few or none of the multicolor cards). I know this is where everyone's ideas get flowing (I know mine did) be we already have a basis of what these can and can't do. Purple CAN exile(a lot) bounce, and have uncounterability. Purple CAN'T do much for grave interaction since they are more exile. Yellow CAN tutor, draw, and play politics. Yellow CAN'T have a lot of creatures or ramp. Orange CAN protect against mill and destruction, ramp, and animate lands. Orange CAN'T have extra draw or use many artifacts. Brown CAN play with artifacts, tokens, and use swarm abilities. Brown CAN'T use counters (place-able counters not counterspell) or have many fatties. Pink CAN library shuffle (Condemn style), exile regenerate (since exile plays a big part), return from grave (Mostly to hand). Pink CAN'T use deception (unblockable and such) or creature wipe. Also, as a whole we're leaving out extra turns, regular regenerate, burn, and protection (like literally "Protection from"). So far the only idea that's come up is the plane itself has a High Council that rules and each color is kind of like a class (Brown being worker class with hardhat as a subtype and Yellow maybe being the high class citizens). Also, my friend says that a new creature type (We call Alv(s) ) should be the ruling class but there's few and with low power/ high toughness. Any help and ideas would be welcome! :D
For that, my friend, I answer, yes lol Lore and flavor as well as potential cards are what I was looking for. I'm not sure what you mean by submitted cards, though. If you mean stuff people have already done for these colors, I looked and found only purple, but not my style of purple.
February 3, 2014 11:48 p.m.
You may want to look over a lot of Maro's old color wheel articles for inspiration. I'll start off with some questions.
The game in general: Will you be preserving the flavor of magic (magical duel between planeswalkers) or flavoring it differently? Are there other planes in this multiverse? Do they use these same colors? Will you ultimately be bringing in the original 5 or not? Are you trying to emulate current Design in Magic? If not, what age of design are you trying to emulate? Will you be using mainly bottom-up design or top-down? Will you preserve the current card types, or alter it? How similar to the current rules will this be?
The new colors: What does each color want above all else? What have they decided is the best way to achieve their goals? What are they unwilling to do? Who are their ally colors, and why do they admire them? Who are their enemy colors, and what can't they stand about them? What lands (or equivalent) best represent them? What is the exact flavor behind granting each color specific abilities and weaknesses?
I can ask more, but I think that's enough to get you started.
February 3, 2014 11:48 p.m.
Also, I forgot, we have basic lands already and then I thought of Mana letters.Purple - Sky (P)Yellow - City (Y)Orange - Cave (O)Brown - Cavern (B) (No black in this set, otherwise I'd do like N or something)and Pink - Meadow (K) (Similar to how blue is U and black is B)
February 3, 2014 11:51 p.m.
wow, raithe000, thanks for the questions to help with the ideas. I do want to ask, what do you mean by current Magic design. I do intend to keep the whole basis of planeswalkers and other planes, this is just the start. I am definately keeping regular mtg rules like sorceries, instants, creatures, etc. I had not fully thought on the overall color desire. That's actually a tough decision considering like purple is on their high horse, but is a voting style play in the minds of my friends and I, but brown is a working class style, so what would they desire? as for the colors, well I hadn't thought about the ally/ enemy concept because the alternate color wheel has it set up just as the original, the reason I started with purple was because the shape, it'd be the equivalent of starting with white and ending with green. However, after thinking on it, idk if the way we built up the colors would work for that exact setup.
February 3, 2014 11:58 p.m.
Community Project (6)
Creature - Construct
Community Project's power and toughness are equal to the number of Brown creatures you control.
February 4, 2014 12:01 a.m.
How magic is designed has changed significantly over the years. I was getting at a number of things, like if you wanted the power balance between creatures and other spells to be relatively the same, will this be designed with limited in mind or only constructed, things of that nature.
February 4, 2014 12:01 a.m.
it could be possible to keep it as that sequence though, Purple likes yellow's way of putting itself out there, and pinks way of thinking about everyone since purple is big on... well, thinking big. However, it does not like orange's realistic view or their preservation of what is, rather than thinking new, and they hate brown's hivemind tendency. Yellow might like purple's outstandish thinking, while also liking orange's desire to keep things as they are. They don't like pink's way of protecting those others deem expendable, and brown's collective mind rather than individualism. Orange might like yellow's ideals for self gain, and brown's idea of working together. However, they wouldn't like purple's "outside-the-box thinking" and pink's desire to try to protect everyone when realistically, it's only you that you should worry about. Brown would appreciate orange's preservation of the mind, and pink's desire to keep everyone happy, but not like purple's way of standing out, or yellow's lone wolf attitude. Finally Pink would like how purple doesn't fall under restrictions of anyone, and brown's collective thinking. They would not like yellow's ideas of using lesser people for personal gain, or orange's mindset of being realistic.
February 4, 2014 12:08 a.m.
Purgery of Strength (XYY)
Sorcery
Reduce target creature's power or toughness by X, then draw an amount of cards equal to 1/2 of X.
February 4, 2014 12:08 a.m.
tman007, that idea is actually similar to what I had in mind, since it's hivemind, but worker class, so token and artifact with swarm abilities, I've been thinking construct tokens and stuff that deal with "the more the better" raithe000, well with purple being "thinking unhibited" I like the idea of some non-physical stuff as well, after all their land shows: the sky is the limit. :D but I see what you're saying. When it comes down to it, I think it would be balanced between creature and non creature spells because Brown is very creature based, and so is pink, but purple and yellow would be spell based. Orange would be kind of mixed. Also, I was incorrect, starting with white and ending green would start pink and end brown. Basically, pink is similar to white (With the big heart and all), Purple is like blue (Very izzet when it comes down to it), yellow is similar to black (Bur seems a one color esper to me), where it differs to me is orange seems green because it is preserving nature, and brown seems red because red (cough cough goblins) can be token and artifact like.
February 4, 2014 12:15 a.m.
tman007 how about my first counterspell I createdBribery 1YYInstantCounter target spell unless its controller lets you draw 2 cards.
February 4, 2014 12:17 a.m.
Strengthen the Weakest Link (2KK)
Instant
Give your creature with the lowest power and toughness +X/+Y until end of turn, where X is equal to the highest power among creatures you control and Y is equal to the highest toughness among creatures you control.
February 4, 2014 12:17 a.m.
Here's the color wheel.
And again on the Alvs, I say that its more on a planarwide basis rather than color specific, like they would be specific to a single plane rather than across all planes, like the eldrazi or satyrs, Blue isnt defined by Vedalkans or Merfolk, Red isnt defined by Goblins nor Dragons, so neither should Yellow.
On the class system, you cant really define it by just race, there WILL be a poor Alv somewhere.
Also Purple should be P, Yellow should be Y, Orange should be O, Brown should be B, and Pink should be I, U was chosen for Blue since Black got B and L is for lands, U came next, Brown gets B since were not using Black, Purple gets P so Pink gets I.
For the yellow counter it should cost YY rather than YY1 since you're pretty much always going to with it.
Anyway:
Workers Strike (as in going on strike for arts sake) III2
Sorcery
Uncommon
Shuffle each Hardhat and Assembly-Worker into its owners library.
Dreams of Redemption PO2
Sorcery
Uncommon
Target player shuffles each exiled card he or she owns into his or her library.
10 color commander though.
February 4, 2014 3:24 p.m.
It just now dawned on me that when you said limited or constructed I completely misread and answered differently, but I think since it'd only be the first core set to start, it'd be constructed wouldn't it?
February 4, 2014 3:25 p.m.
Well, we didn't say Alvs would be color specific on this one, we were actually thinking the Alvs are just the higher race... think of the green lantern movie (I know, lame example, but it works). The council of the lantern is all one old race but non of the other lanterns are that race. that's kind of what me and Jonicus_T_Darkmatter were thinking. Have a legendary creature for each color that is a High Councelor
February 4, 2014 3:32 p.m.
Then the Alves would just be a council not a race, like the guildmasters on ravnica, notice how all of them are different races, so should they.
alternate ravnica plane
February 4, 2014 3:35 p.m.
Tbh, I'm with Jon, I like the idea of them being a race. I don't want it to be an alternate rav, I want it to be something new. I understand the ideas are similar, but I never read the ravnican comics, so I couldn't base it on them if i tried unless I did multi color guilds, but I think a single ruling race could make sense, maybe they're the only ones left and that's why they make up the council.
February 5, 2014 5:06 p.m.
And again your making it too much on the race, if these were the actual magic colors there wouldn't be just a single plane made up of little green or purple dudes, there would be many planes, and so you would essentially be making a single color plane, which in my opinion is impossible given that each color represents different personalitys.
There are mono-black goblins, angels, and wurms, but now whole worlds controlled by them.
I really think a single ruling race is a dumb idea and would just bomb in magic as hard as Emmara Tandris did.
February 5, 2014 5:13 p.m.
There'd still be other races. Humans, elves, goblins, everything, just the council would be made up of the Alvs
February 5, 2014 5:43 p.m.
And that's where it would fault, I mean how do you think the people would react to a new set in which the highest powers are U colored creatures and the rest are all undermineded
February 5, 2014 5:46 p.m.
@CW I may be misreading, but I think the Alvs are all different colors, not all one color. So there would be Pink Alv Councilmember, a Purple Alv Councilmember, a Brown Alv Councilmember, and so on.
February 5, 2014 5:52 p.m.
Yes. raithe000 that's exactly what I mean. One to represent each color in the council
February 5, 2014 5:56 p.m.
raithe000 somewhere when we were talking about it it was decided that they would be yellow colored like vedalkens are blue.
and even then I still dislike the thought of a whole race controlling a plane unless they're legitimately that powerful (i.e. Gods on theros).
I feel like the alvs are really forced and I would rather there just be a council of different beings like ravnica had, like a huge hardhat or construct for brown and so on, one race controlling all sounds pretty natzi-ish
February 5, 2014 5:58 p.m.
going by the alv council idea there would be a set place for 5 mythic rares all the same creature type and I doubt they have that for such low level beings compared to eldrazis and gods.
February 5, 2014 6 p.m.
lol CW actually pink and purple had more Alvs than yellow, but I figured you'd realise I meant all because why would one color have a card to represent another in the council? But in a way, I don't see how a hardhat would really work in the council, he wouldn't really know how to vote on more than just his class, he's just a worker. An Alv looking for the worker's best interest however, could work. But if we did do the council as different races, they'd have to be similar to the majority race of that color. Meaning the Brown would simply be a human.
February 5, 2014 6:02 p.m.
Hardhats and assembly-workers would be like soldiers to humans, pretty much the same thing lorewise, I mean how many of the izzet are dragons other than niv and hypersonic, but niv is still the face of the izzet, same with rakdos
February 5, 2014 6:06 p.m.
still, hardhat isn't a creature type. They're human hardhats, so either way it'd be a human or something. But the humans would be the working class really, either them or like orcs and goblins or something
February 5, 2014 6:11 p.m.
To be completely truthful, we're getting ahead of ourselves anyway. Like raithe said earlier, we need to decide the basics of the color a little more. I even went on WotC's official mtg website to see how it words everything for the original 5, and I'm going from there.
February 5, 2014 6:15 p.m.
Hardhat should be a creature type, just like assembly-worker is (Mishra's Factory ), and again I don't like this caste system, I mean it just seems like you have to be born an alv to get anywhere on this plane other than that you're doomed to a life of boredom and mediocrity.
Thats why I like Ravnica, where you're your own boss and the only one above you is someone who is just more powerful, Goblin Electromancer is the perfect example, like the Goblin that worked with Teysa to save the plane from dragons and was given the ability to use the Firemind. (which is like some sort of omnipotence given by Niv).
February 5, 2014 6:17 p.m.
No, the only Alvs are the council, everyone else is a different race.
February 5, 2014 6:23 p.m.
Well, if I go on that basis, they'll still be Alvs, but the entire plane treats them as Gods. They are just an ancient race with emense hidden power
February 5, 2014 6:35 p.m.
Here's a mock-up of my pink card, that's as far as I'm willing to go with making it look "magic-esque" since the whole Alv thing turns me off.
Good luck with the project.
February 5, 2014 6:49 p.m.
Jrjersey01 says... #38
I think you are trying to say that the Alvs are like praetors. Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur , Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger , Sheoldred, Whispering One , Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite , and Urabrask the Hidden are I think what you are looking for. They each represent a different philosophy.Azmedeus CW
February 5, 2014 7:01 p.m.
Yeah, thats what I don't care for, A single race of leftovers just landing in the ruling spot cause the rest of em died just seems lame to me.
Anyway if its supposed to be a core set why are you introducing "eldrazi-esque" creatures?
Seems more like a plane set to me
February 5, 2014 7:15 p.m.
I completely forgot about the praetors to be honest, but yeah that's basically how it would be for the council. Each has a different philosophy they represent according to their class group.
February 5, 2014 7:15 p.m.
Well, I'm kinda doing both because I really don't know how to introduce the colors as a whole at this point so I'm just starting with a plane and branching out
February 5, 2014 7:22 p.m.
The reason I'm so against Alvs is because Wizards didn't start magic by tossing out completely new superbeings, they started with dragons, angels, demons, wurms, and Leviathans as the big monsters and soldiers, elvs, merfolk, goblins, and zombies as the swarmy classes.
The most resent non-worldly beings that have seen print are the random vedalkans on ravnica and none of em see specific uses in the lore (other than jaces sidekick at the start of the secretist).
We should just start it up with universal creatures
February 5, 2014 7:23 p.m.
Leonin are not traditional and are pretty big in many magic sets. Also, the Vedalken were pretty important to the original Mirrodin story.
February 5, 2014 7:29 p.m.
True but they didnt start printing completely original types for a while after the original sets, I'm talking alpha and beta here, since these are 5 completely new colors we should start with the basics
February 5, 2014 8 p.m.
well that's partially why I said we were getting ahead anyway, I still haven't gotten each color's overall goal down
February 5, 2014 8:11 p.m.
Ok, so for the colors, I am working on the full out descriptions like one would find on the Wizards of the Coast's site. So far, I've only finished Pink's description but I am close to finishing Purple as well. So once again before I give the description: Pink is friendly, nurturing, and naive, and the stand for compassion (caring for the little man) and community (caring for all man). So this is where I'm headed with Pink's description:Pink mana comes from sunset gardens, misty groves, and flowery meadows. In Magic, pink is the color of Compassion, Community, and Pacifism. Pink magic heals and protects and rarely kills unless necessary. When pink mages fight, they band together and protect each other, believing youre only as strong as the weakest link.Compassion, community, love, and pacifism: These are pink magics values.Pink mages desire nothing more than all around peace. They will go to any lengths to keep the peace, without killing unless it was unavoidable. To pink mages, the community always comes before the individual. Pink magic heals and restores, leaving no one behind. At their best, pink mages are passionate, responsive, and peaceful. At their worst, they are naive, controlling, and impulsive.Examples of pink spells include restoration and healing magic, prevention, and restraint spells.Pink-aligned creatures are defensive, responsive, and orderly. They gather together to create an impenetrable wall. Pink mages summon angels to do whatever is needed to keep order. Masses of knights and paladins come together to police the world and ensure the safety of the public. Alone, the knights may be weak, but together, they can be unstoppable.Each of the five colors of magic has two ally colors and two enemy colors. Pink is allied with Brown and Purple. Pink mana and Brown mana share values of community, order, and structure. Pink mana and Purple mana share values of emotion, will, and idealism.Pink mana opposes yellow mana through the conflicts of community vs. individual, health vs. wealth, and defense vs. offense. Pink mana opposes Orange mana through the conflicts of idealism vs. realism, forced order vs. natural order, and nurture vs. nature.
February 21, 2014 3:08 p.m.
So, I have another question I can use some help with that my friends and I can't fully decide on. Mana Symbols. I have pink and purple as well as orange. Brown is debatable but yellow is far from decided. Keep in mind, mana symbols fit in the itty bitty circles, are symplish in design and represent what the mana is drawn from. Pink comes from meadows for compassion so the symbol is a lotus flower design. Purple comes from the skies and the wind, so I'm keeping the swirl design left from the color wheel. Orange comes from deep in the natural earth, so it is represented by a diamond. Brown was left similar to the wheel, as a gear was used, but it's debatable because the mana doesn't really come from machines. Also, on that idea, the brown land being cave is also debatable due to the style of the color. In my mind, it's very communistic with its hive-mind, togetherness, industrial feel to it. Finally, yellow comes from cities and is based on greed, power, and opportunity. so I'm stumped.
Servo_Token says... #2
Wow, this is really interesting. So basically you're trying to compile a set that's half-plane shifted. I really like the idea. But I'd like to ask what you're asking for here. Do you want submitted cards? Do you want ideas for potential cards? Or do you want lore and flavor?
February 3, 2014 11:22 p.m.