Thoughts on Kenku
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on July 2, 2022, 9:41 a.m. by tonylomas
Good morning teletubbies ! i have this weird crush on Kenku Artificer and its interaction with Indestructible Artifact lands...wich wont be lands anymore if you target them....like mini marit-lages xd A)what are your thoughts on this lil guy?
griffstick says... #3
I dont think it loses its land type. If you target Ancient Den with Kenku Artificer's ability turning it into a creature. This effect doesn't remove its land type. Or is there something I'm missing
July 2, 2022 11:08 a.m. Edited.
griffstick the "is still a land" part at the end. This one is not gonna have it cuz it only says artifacts, but since u can still apply it to artifact lands...xd
July 2, 2022 11:41 a.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #5
Notice I does not say "in addition to it's other types."
Pretty sure they stop being lands. Although, they should retain their mana ability, so that's a bit of a moot point.
July 2, 2022 11:52 a.m.
TypicalTimmy griffstick since i have u both(? have u checked the new game night legends?
July 2, 2022 12:25 p.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #7
I have not, but if a card has a replacement effect to turn it into something else, and it does not explicitly retain the original types, those types are lost.
In your case, it loses the Land type. Now it does say "that artifact becomes", which is a new way to word "in addition to it's other types" in the majority of cases, sure. The card acknowledges that it is, in fact, still an artifact.
But it fails to recognize it anymore as a land. Which should be a good thing, as it can no longer be targeted with land removal (although being indestructible means land removal would miss it, anyway).
The point is, it acknowledges it being an artifact, and notifies you of it becoming a creature, but fails to recognize it as still a land. Because of this, it likely would lose Land as a type.
However, nothing indicates that it loses the mana ability of : Add .
And so you find yourself in a strange situation where your land loses itself as a land, yet retains all of the abilities of being a land.
The reason is two key points, again.
- It does NOT say "in addition to it's other types", and so the "other types" (Land) are lost.
- It ALSO does not say "loses all abilities", meaning it RETAINS the mana ability.
What this means is, if a spell, ability or permanent instructs you to look at the number of lands you control such as Land Tax or Avenger of Zendikar, those will no longer notice your 3/3 Ancient Den. However, when it comes to the production of mana, yes your 3/3 has ": Add ".
When Cyclonic Rift hits you, it instructs to return all nonland permanents to your hand.
Your 3/3 Ancient Den is not a land, and gets bounced.
So yes, it does actually matter that these lines of text are missing.
July 2, 2022 12:37 p.m. Edited.
Grubbernaut says... #9
It stays a land, unless there's been a syntax change I've missed. Same way old-school Tezzeret interacts with Inkmoth Nexus.
July 2, 2022 9:50 p.m.
plakjekaas says... #10
If you look up the Baldur's Gate release notes and find the entry for Kenku Artificer, it is mentioned that "The artifact retains any types, subtypes, or supertypes it has."
The "it's still a land"-part is only needed when the ability has to target a land, and adds a type to it (usually makes it a creature). Kenku Artificer's ability can target a Darksteel Relic, so any "it's still a land"-clause would confuse more than it helps in that case. Which is why they don't mention it on the card, I presume.
July 5, 2022 5:24 a.m.
griffstick says... #11
10/1/2008 - The third ability causes artifacts you control to become creatures in addition to their other card types.
The above rules was from the Gatherer for tezzeret the seeker
July 5, 2022 10:13 a.m.
plakjekaas says... #12
True, but I looked up Gatherer for Kenku Artificer, and found no rulings mentioned at all, which is why I tried to supply additional evidence that they indeed work the same way ;)
July 5, 2022 10:20 a.m.
griffstick says... #14
Cyberdrive Awakener has no ruling too. And it does a similar thing
July 5, 2022 10:35 a.m. Edited.
If you play pauper you can totally run 2-3 in jeskai ephemerate since you can run all the artifact lands but in commander I don't think it would be enough to make much an impact even if you find your 1 of 6 bridges/citadel
July 5, 2022 12:02 p.m.
lol the investigation continues xd hahahah KL185 yeah i mean the main "issue" is that you cant spam the counters on the same artifact with him, u can still get counters from other sources i guess, but itd be nice to blink him over and over. At the end of the day you can always passively use Katsumasa, the Animator and swing when youre ready....maybe.
shadow63 says... #2
Its ok as a card. But in edh there isn't enough targets for these kind of effects and theres better effects
July 2, 2022 10:56 a.m.