Gold-Bordered Cards
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on June 3, 2014, 12:50 a.m. by MindAblaze
My friends have a bias against them...my wallet does not. What are you peoples thoughts? Opinions? Any concerns with regards to legality?
I personally don't care; I just think people against them feel cheated/butthurt in a way since they probably paid more for their copy.
June 3, 2014 12:55 a.m.
lol EDH isn't really a real sanctioned format anyways, there's no reason not to be using them if the card is expensive
June 3, 2014 1:05 a.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #5
Always listen to the wallet. You don't need friends when you and your wallet are perfectly in sync.
June 3, 2014 1:12 a.m.
WOTC has released special reprints for various events that are not tournament-legal. They have gold borders and a different backing
June 3, 2014 2 a.m.
EDH is a social format. Outside of sanctioned events: house rules, personal ban list changes, rules bending and such are as much a part of the format as anything else. Some folks want EDH to be a casual format where you all do wacky things and play with bad rares, while another group wants something more competitive. Just have a discussion about it. If you end up disagreeing you can either abide by the groups vote or find a new one.
June 3, 2014 2:45 a.m.
KnightsBattlecry001 says... #10
I'm with most people here. Listen to the wallet.
June 3, 2014 2:53 a.m.
Didgeridooda says... #11
I am on the opposite here. I do not like them. I will not use proxies, even if I own the card, and it is in another deck. If my opponent owns the card, and proxies it, I do not mind. I really do not like if they try to use proxies for cards they don't have. Gold border cards are just sanctioned proxies. If you want to play with the card, get the card. That is my opinion on the matter. Otherwise I would have quite the EDH deck. One proxy leads to another, and so on.
June 3, 2014 3:24 a.m.
I agree with reasonable proxies. Don't go proxying everything amazing in, such as dual lands. But things like Academy Rector are more than reasonable proxies IMO, I own a gold bordered one. I'd trade for a regular one if I found one, but until then, gold bordered it is. But people who proxy Mishra's Workshop are assholes.
June 3, 2014 3:40 a.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #13
Not tournament legal. If you're not playing tournament level EDH and don't care that you don't actually have a real copy of the card, why should other people care?
June 3, 2014 7:16 a.m.
@fluffybunnypants because some people, wanting to actually use real cards which are actual magic cards, have gone to lengths of trading and buying and expending time and resources to earn the powerful cards they want to use in their decks, and it is frustrating to have spend weeks or months using less powerful cards while you acquired copies of the cards you want to use, finally get to put them in the deck, and then play against a guy who is proxying his entire mana base and half his cards?
June 3, 2014 8:55 a.m.
MindAblaze says... #16
...and this is the fence I've been sitting on. I am definitely on the "buy the cards you use" side, but I definitely see the value of having an extra 50 dollars to feed my family with.
I also dont like playing with a subpar manabase...Apparently children like to eat though...little bastards.
June 3, 2014 9:51 a.m.
Didgeridooda says... #17
MindAblaze! yeah nice to have more money, but you can just hold off on the card then. I find that to be part of the game that I really like. Finding a way to get it done. I see proxies as cheating.
GoofyFoot reasonable is relative. It is an opinion, and easily bent. If I started using proxies with my friends, and we agreed to do this, sure as shit I will have the most powerful proxied up deck in the history of EDH. 1 is the same as 100 to me.
June 3, 2014 10:47 a.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #18
No no no MindAblaze!, children don't like to eat. Children like to snack. Teenagers are the ones who like to eat, and then also snack.
June 3, 2014 12:06 p.m.
NotSoLuckyLydia says... #19
I personally don't mind proxies. My group is mostly college students. And we like to play competitive EDH decks. That means ABUR duals, 9 fetches, cradles, and other expensive cards. We don't use penned in proxies, we print color cards at the library, and use those instead. It's up to the group, but I'd rather have everyone on an equal playing field for (non-tournament) games, rather than one rich kid blowing everybody out with his $8,000 enchantress Marath deck.
June 3, 2014 6:56 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #20
I wouldn't consider the gold-bordered cards "proxies" when it comes to casual gaming. Though they're not legal in any DCI-sanctioned event (because they don't meet the definition of "traditional Magic card"), they were officially printed by WotC for people to collect and even play with. The World Championship decks even came with a few blank cards that you could use to make your own changes, so WotC definitely intended for people to play with the cards in some capacity.
June 4, 2014 9:26 a.m.
MindAblaze says... #21
That's what gets me...its not exactly a proxy...the Badlands I'm looking at is still 50 dollars. Thats much more than the pieces of paper I've currently got taped to basic lands...
June 4, 2014 10:21 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #23
@MindAblaze!: I'm not surprised to hear that. The domestic and international Collector's Edition cards are getting harder and harder to find as the years pass. The price difference between that Badlands and a "legit" one is solely due to tournament legality for Legacy and Vintage. In my opinion, because of the very limited print run of the Collector's Edition set, if they somehow became legal overnight then the prices might end up at more than the Unlimited versions.
@Didgeridooda: It depends on what you mean by "proxy", and I'm certain not everyone in this discussion would use the same definition. If you mean "a card that isn't a 'traditional Magic card' as defined by the MTR", then yes, but the MTR only officially applies to a sanctioned tournament setting. Even then, the only valid proxy in a sanctioned event is one created by the Head Judge to replace a card that was damaged/destroyed in that event. The CR's definition of "traditional Magic card" is looser, and doesn't specifically exclude gold-bordered cards in the same way the MTR does.
June 4, 2014 10:42 a.m.
Didgeridooda says... #24
The back being a different design pretty much cements the gold bordered cards as proxies to me. I just think that if you want a card you need to be willing to do what is necessary to get it. Proxying is a shortcut that just does not interest me.
Using proxies kills the game to me because you are supposed to procure the copies that you need to play. This is part of the hunt, and a good limiting factor for the power creep to be slow, and steady. If I were to proxy cards, duals, fetches, old utility lands, mana drains, FoW all the cards I would like, but don't have would be in there. I think that takes away from the game, and that is why I feel the way I do about them.
June 4, 2014 11:14 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #25
So paying $50 for a hard to find Collector's Edition Badlands doesn't count?
June 4, 2014 11:24 a.m.
Things which are not actually magic cards shouldn't be in the deck unless you're testing out an expensive card you don't yet own with the intention of owning it if it works out in the deck.
Gold-bordered or otherwise. I own(ed) several of the old world championship decks, and at no point did it ever occur to me to -not- get my own Wasteland etc.
June 4, 2014 10:33 p.m.
Didgeridooda says... #27
Rhadamanthus for me it is the same as a post-it on a basic land. Might as well print out nice copies and glue them on a card if it really is a wallet issue.
June 5, 2014 1:12 a.m.
I'm with Devonin on this on. When I started playing my Jund EDH deck, I had 25 proxies in so that I could test it out before dropping the cash on some rather expensive cards. Now I'm only 2 cards away, Badlands and Bayou , but being that I've picked up all the fetches, Gaea's Cradle , Taiga and other rather expensive cards since then, I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that I'll be getting them when I can find the right deal. If the guys at my LGS don't mind me using the proxies instead of budget cards to make the deck playable while I get the finances together to complete it, why should I?
June 5, 2014 1:40 a.m.
MindAblaze says... #29
As with everything, if you clear it with the people around you it won't be a big deal. I got asked the question;
"Does proxying [fetches and duals] make your deck significantly better than ours?"
But I guess my original question was whether people consider the collectors/international edition cards proxies. I'm the one who brought up proxies in our EDH league because I feel like within reason it doesn't matter. Obviously sleeving up Epochalyptiks Damia deck with 100 basic lands with post-it notes on them is not cool, but I think there's a line somewhere.
June 5, 2014 12:17 p.m.
We allow up to 10 proxies per deck. Own them or don't. Simply 10 cards can be proxied and must be legal per our own (modified) edh ban list. But in my group there are only a few people who proxy divided by two groups, one group, who has 29839821 decks and all his cards spread around them and they doesn't want to share them or get more duplicates and the other is the power player group who proxies the cards to make their decks better. The latter would proxy and sleeve epoch's deck if allowed to.
The majority of us though build out of our existing pool and that's it. We'll buy the cards we need before sleeving up the deck and playing it.
June 5, 2014 12:32 p.m.
Issues with:
- Cards
- Children
- Money
- Eating
- Proxies
Solution is:
- Proxy Cards... Eat Children... Keep Money!!
June 5, 2014 3:03 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #32
The fiancee may frown on eating the children...
@ gufymike I'm in the first group. I feel awfully spendy buying a complete Legacy manabase to outfit my EDH decks, but I don't want to run Guildgates either...hence the conundrum.
brokendwarf says... #2
I agree with your wallet
June 3, 2014 12:55 a.m.