When you emerge a creature by sacing a creature can you sac it again with a mana ability?
Asked by notorius-B.D.A.W.G 4 years ago
I noted the oracle rules on emerge cards states:
The creature chosen to be sacrificed is still on the battlefield up through the time that you activate mana abilities. Its abilities may affect the spell’s cost, be activated to generate mana, and so on. However, if it has an ability that triggers when a spell is cast, it will have been sacrificed before that ability can trigger.
I know this means that you could sac a mana dork to emerge a creature and then tap the dork for mana to pay mana costs.
My question: since the sacrificed creature is still on board whilst paying mana costs and mana abilities can be used, can you use a mana ability like Thermopod ’s to sacrifice it yet again for mana?
It seems wrong to me that you can double sacrifice but the oracle ruling makes it look like a corner case where you can.
Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #2
The key detail behind what the Oracle ruling says is that paying costs is the very last step of casting a spell, with the window for activating mana abilities in the step right before that.
In the situation where you want to use Llanowar Elves for both mana and a sacrifice to help cast Decimator of the Provinces (or Natural Order or whatever), you would tap the Elves for mana in the mana abilities step and then spend the and sacrifice the Elves in the cost payment step.
This doesn't work in the case of getting mana from something like Thermopod because if you sacrifice a creature to make mana during the mana abilities step, it's gone when you get to the cost payment step. You won't be able to sacrifice it to help pay the cost of the spell you're casting.
September 25, 2019 2:22 p.m. Edited.
Liliana9000x says... #3
actually you CANT "sacrifice a creature" and "then" tap it for mana. you would have to tap it first.
September 26, 2019 1:44 a.m.
Liliana9000x, it depends on the timing of the sacrifice. If you're sacrificing a creature as part of a cost, you can still tap it for mana first because of how activating abilities and casting spells works.
You first declare you're casting the spell/activating the ability. You make all choices for it, including targets. Then you determine the cost, including which creatures if any you will be sacrificing to pay a cost. Then you can tap lands and creatures for mana if particular circumstances allow (no summoning sickness, for instance). Finally you actually pay the cost, which is when you would actually sacrifice the creature.
So with Natural Order as an example, you would declare you're casting it. There are no choices to be made during casting (only on resolution), so you determine its cost: two green, two generic, and one creature sacrificed (you're going to sac Llanowar Elves ). Then you tap for mana, which you can do by tapping three lands and a Llanowar Elves . Then finally you pay the cost, which means spending the four mana and sacrificing the Elves.
So on the one hand, you're choosing to sacrifice the Elves before you tap them for mana, but the actual sacrifice doesn't happen until the end of the process, after the tap.
September 26, 2019 10:42 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #5
To avoid confusing anyone: Kogarashi's post really just re-explains the details behind my post and Liliana9000x's post. If you want to tap the creature for mana then you have to do it before actually sacrificing it.
September 26, 2019 10:51 a.m.
In the future, please remember to hit the green “mark as answer” button to indicate your question has been resolved. Since since this question has been answered for a couple of days, I have gone ahead and marked an answer on your behalf.
Yesterday says... #1
Nah you can't do that. You can never sacrifice the same object twice.
My head's not in the game today so I'll let somebody else explain in proper Magiquise why it doesn't work, but there it is in case you just wanted quick answer.
September 25, 2019 12:47 p.m.