"Only any time you could cast an instant."
Asked by Yesterday 7 years ago
I've looked up the rulings on this and maybe I'm just not getting it, but I'm really just not getting it.
- 304.5. If text states that a player may do something any time he or she could cast an instant, it means only that the player must have priority.
Lion's Eye Diamond, Charmed Pendant, etc.. Rhystic Cave even has this added to the oracle text.
So... what? You can't use them in response to Split Second, just like every other card ever in general? I really don't understand what this clarification is meant to mean.
Basically they are mana abilities for the purpose of cards like Pithing Needle but they have to be used at instant speed so you can't use Lion's Eye Diamond to pay for a spell you are casting from your hand, but you can cast a spell, retain priority and activate LED to discard hand and get 3 mana.
August 15, 2016 8:26 p.m.
Raging_Squiggle says... Accepted answer #3
You can activate them in response to split second spells. Players receive priority when a split second spell is on the stack, but generally they can't do anything but let it resolve. The reason you can is because the abilities present in the cards in question are mana abilities which don't use the stack.
Any time you could cast an instant is when you have priority, as you said. This means:
you cannot activate their abilities when casting a spell,
you cannot activate their abilities when activating an ability.
this is because during those times of casting or activating, no player has priority and because various other cards are changing zones (except Rhystic Cave, which is explained below).
Here's a ruling from Gatherer from Rhystic Cave that might help you a bit:
10/4/2004 The cards ability has errata so you cant activate the ability during casting of a spell or activating of an ability. This prevents you from getting into a position where someone paying 1 could stop you from having enough mana to pay for the spell. If you want to use it pay for a spell or ability, you need to use this card before you start the casting or activating.
August 15, 2016 8:29 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #4
Generally, you can activate a mana ability at any time that you have priority. You can also activate mana abilities when you are prompted to pay a cost during the casting, activation, or resolution processes.
The "only any time you could cast an instant" wording added to cards like Lion's Eye Diamond changes how those cards' mana abilities work. You can't activate Lion's Eye Diamond's ability during the casting, activation, or resolution processes. You must activate them before the process begins if you intend to use the mana during that process.
As LeaPlath pointed out, this means you can't use Lion's Eye Diamond's ability to cast a card from your hand. Because you have to activate Lion's Eye Diamond's mana ability before you begin casting a spell, you will have to discard your hand before you announce the spell. This means that you can't announce a spell from your hand; those cards will be in your graveyard.
August 15, 2016 8:30 p.m.
Apologies, I evidently misunderstood _Split Second _a bit as well. And the definition of 'mana ability'. So this has been rather educational already, and I still don't understand the actual question I set out to.
"You can also activate mana abilities when you are prompted to pay a cost during the casting, activation, or resolution processes."
10/4/2004 This prevents you from getting into a position where someone paying 1 could stop you from having enough mana to pay for the spell. If you want to use it pay for a spell or ability, you need to use this card before you start the casting or activating.
" ... this means you can't use Lion's Eye Diamond's ability to cast a card from your hand. Because you have to activate Lion's Eye Diamond's mana ability before you begin casting a spell, you will have to discard your hand before you announce the spell."
Don't you always have to use your mana abilities (if their resulting mana would be spent on a spell) before casting the spell? Could somebody please provide me with an example of any spell you would cast, and afterwards activate a mana source ability in order to be able to complete the casting of the spell? Or am I just misunderstanding this further?
August 15, 2016 9:25 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #6
Apart from the abilities of your example cards and maybe a few others, almost any mana abilities can be activated during the casting, activation, or resolution process.
If you're casting a spell or activating an ability, or if you're resolving something that has an optional on-resolution cost, you'll be given the opportunity to pay that cost at the appropriate time. Part of this includes being given the opportunity to activate mana abilities in order to produce the required mana.
You aren't required to activate mana abilities prior to casting a spell or activating an ability. Some people do, but you don't have to.
August 15, 2016 9:36 p.m.
- "You aren't required to activate mana abilities prior to casting a spell or activating an ability. Some people do, but you don't have to."
Oh. I'd thought you always had to pay mana costs before activating spells, and that not doing so was just a casual house disregard for rules that nobody really minded because it usually had no effect.
http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/print.php?Article=20059 - #1.
Apparently I have been living 20 years in the past, which is odd because I haven't even been playing Magic that long.
So you can't activate Lion's Eye Diamond or Charmed Pendant's abilities as mana sources whilst a card is in the process of changing zones because they themselves cause cards to change zones. That makes perfect sense now. Thanks!
August 15, 2016 10:02 p.m.
Yesterday if you want to be more confused and enlightened a little more, check out Selvala, Explorer Returned
August 16, 2016 6:44 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #10
If your question has been sufficiently answered, please select an answer as accepted to remove this question from the active queue.
August 16, 2016 8:11 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #11
Here is an edited version of the steps to cast a spell, take special note of 601.2g . All of the editing is to remove explanation of each step so that it is just a list of steps.
601.2a To propose the casting of a spell, a player first moves that card (or that copy of a card) from where it is to the stack.
601.2b If the spell is modal, the player announces the mode choice.
601.2c The player announces his or her choice of an appropriate player, object, or zone for each target the spell requires.
601.2d If the spell requires the player to divide or distribute an effect (such as damage or counters) among one or more targets, the player announces the division.
601.2e The game checks to see if the proposed spell can legally be cast.
601.2f The player determines the total cost of the spell.
601.2g If the total cost includes a mana payment, the player then has a chance to activate mana abilities.
601.2h The player pays the total cost in any order.
601.2i Once the steps described in 601.2ah are completed, the spell becomes cast.
MollyMab says... #1
It is because they move cards from a zone to another or require something that means they aren't quite like other mana abilities.
August 15, 2016 8:18 p.m.