Hurl through hell commander
Asked by proterran98 2 years ago
I Hurl Through Hell someone’s commander. If my opponent decides to place it In their command zone (can they?) can I play the commander? If yes, what happens if they played it first?
Gidgetimer is correct. The rules of commander make it pretty hard to abuse stuff like this. The only reliable ways to get there commander and keep them from re-playing it are simply stealing it with Control Magic type effects, or to just destroy it enough to up the tax on it so it isn't desirable to recast. You can also turn it into a land with Imprisoned in the Moon or Song of the Dryads , which they can really only beat with enchantment removal or land destruction. Anything that will exile, destroy, or discard will always allow them to safely put it in the command zone away from your meddling.
July 20, 2021 2:48 p.m.
Even going to hand or library allows them to redirect their commander to the command zone. You used to be able to get someone's commander lost in their deck with polymorph effects like Proteus Staff , but the current commander rules don't allow this.
July 22, 2021 10:49 p.m.
I am not sure Gidgetimer is correct because of cards like Banishing Light . Using Banishing Light on a commander, if the banishing light is removed and the player sent their commander to the command zone , it will still be returned to battlefield.
Hurl Through Hell reads the same way, as it doesn't say 'exiled' it just says 'that card'. I will also point out though, that if you cast your opponent's commander from the command zone, they may choose not to let it enter the battlefield, as it is changing zones and they can just put it back into the command zone. Practically, I think the most you can hope for is upping the commander tax, which you also have to pay.
And going to the command zone is a replacement effect, such that the exiled commander would never touch the exile zone. (an update to the rules, makes it so that effects that would trigger if goes into exile do trigger, but the game never sees the card in exile)
July 23, 2021 11:26 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #5
Command zone instead of hand or library is a replacement effect. Command zone when dies or exiled is now an SBA that is checked once, immediately after the event; much like the deathtouch and losing to drawing from an empty library. It is actually this rule change that made it so that Oblivion Ring , Fiend Hunter , et al. will not return a commander that was put into the command zone. The cards now actually do touch exile/graveyard before SBAs are checked. If you still disagree go ahead and provide an explanation with rules citations.
903.9a If a commander is in a graveyard or in exile and that object was put into that zone since the last time state-based actions were checked, its owner may put it into the command zone. This is a state-based action. See rule 704.
903.9b If a commander would be put into its owner’s hand or library from anywhere, its owner may put it into the command zone instead. This replacement effect may apply more than once to the same event. This is an exception to rule 614.5.
July 24, 2021 8:45 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #6
Banishing Light is part of that et al, btw. The reason it ever worked was because going to the command zone was a replacement effect. It had nothing to do with "that card" vs. "the exiled card". Since it is now a SBA, abilities can no long track the card to the command zone when they die or are exiled.
July 24, 2021 8:50 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #7
Sorry for spamming posts, I just read Chaospyke's entire post instead of just the first and last paragraph.
You have never been able to put your commander into the command zone instead of the stack or battlefield. It was originally just zone changes to Exile and Graveyard as a replacement effect. Hand and Library were later added (I don't remember the order or even if it was individually or at the same time that they were added to the replacement effect). The most recent change was the one that I described above about Exile/GY being a SBA and hand/library still being a replacement effect.
I should be done for a while.
July 24, 2021 8:59 p.m.
I didn't see the rule's update on the 23rd.
https://tappedout.net/mtg-questions/can-prison-effects-still-track-commanders/
Here's a link about prison effects with duration and commanders.
However its a mute point as with the new rules, the commander changes zones if they put it into CZ.
So Gidgetimer is right.
Gidgetimer says... Accepted answer #1
Effects only track cards to the first zone they go to for the purposes of acting upon them. Once the commander goes to exile your opponent will have the option to put them into the command zone as a state-based action. If they do the card will no longer be in exile and you will not be able to cast it.
July 20, 2021 5:40 a.m.