Combo vs Combo Question
Asked by Omnath9 6 years ago
My brother and I were playing modern, he was playing Abzan Company, I was playing my Elves deck. He had a combo with Kitchen Finks, Viscera Seer, and Anafenza, Kin Tree Spirit. He decided to do the combo so that he gained 10 billion life and got to scry 1 5 billion times. I then got out a Devoted Druid, a Vizier of Remedies, and Ezuri, Renegade Leader. Having unlimited mana from the Devoted Druid and Vizier of Remedies combo, I decided to make all 5 of my elves +10 billion/+10 billion and trample and then swung with all 5 of my elves for a little bit over 50 billion trample damage. My brother then decided to gain 10 trillion life and then I pumped my creatures even more and it just went on and on, each person able to best the other. So my question is, what happens? Does the game just result in a draw?
acbooster Sorry about not linking the cards. It was a casual game but I do want to know what would happen if this was a game in a tournament. I don't think Rule 421.3 applies to this scenario as both players have individual loops and are not both part of one loop.
August 29, 2017 11:44 a.m.
Raging_Squiggle says... #3
719.3. Sometimes a loop can be fragmented, meaning that each player involved in the loop performs an independent action that results in the same game state being reached multiple times. If that happens, the active player (or, if the active player is not involved in the loop, the first player in turn order who is involved) must then make a different game choice so the loop does not continue.
While it may not be creating the same game state exactly, this rule can be enforced to continue the game.
August 29, 2017 1:14 p.m.
Raging_Squiggle I'm pretty sure you're right that rule 719.3 provides clarification as to what would happen and even though it is two separate loops I think this would still apply to the situation. The only question I have is: does the rule still apply to this situation even though the game state is changing with each iteration of each loop (a player gaining life/creatures getting bigger)?
August 29, 2017 7:33 p.m.
Raging_Squiggle says... #7
You could argue that while the game state is technically changing (your creatures get bigger vs your opponent gets more life), it is not affecting any other aspect of the game, and ultimately reverts back to the "I'm attacking you for lethal" game state. Which is why I think this rule should be enforced.
acbooster says... Accepted answer #1
Remember to link all cards in your question to make it easier for people to answer it.
Kitchen Finks
Viscera Seer
Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
Devoted Druid
Vizier of Remedies
Ezuri, Renegade Leader
The rules are a bit convoluted when it comes to handling infinite loops because they typically end a game (like with infinite mana pumping an Ezuri). In the case of two or more players being involved in the same loop, the non-active player can opt to have the "final word" so to speak, as per rule 421.3 (pasted below). Since this sounds like a casual game, the two of you could call it a draw, but it would be up to your brother to decide who gets the "last word".
421.3. If a loop contains optional actions controlled by two players and actions by both of those players are required to continue the loop, the active player (or, if the active player is not involved, the first involved player after the active player in turn order) chooses a number. The other player then has two choices. He or she can choose a lower number, in which case the loop continues that number of times plus whatever fraction is necessary for the first player to have the last word. Or he or she can agree to the number the first player chose, in which case the loop continues that number of times plus whatever fraction is necessary for the second player to have the last word. (Note that either fraction may be zero.) This sequence of choices is extended to all applicable players if there are more than two players involved.
August 29, 2017 11:26 a.m. Edited.