Why no bans?
Modern forum
Posted on Oct. 11, 2016, 11:46 a.m. by magicarp03
What are your thoughts on the no ban decision for modern? i think that at least Become Immense should be there.
EpicFreddi says... #3
I don't see a reason why Becomme Immense should be banned. It's a great and somewhat "unfair" card, don't get me wrong, but the decks it's been played in are not toxic to the format. Especially concidered that the card on it's own is beaten by a single Path/any other instant removal.
October 11, 2016 11:57 a.m.
The format is in a very healthy position. According to MTGtop8, no deck is dominating. Many decks actually hover from 4-8 percent of the meta. That's healthy and balanced. No need for any changes.
October 11, 2016 12:01 p.m.
http://mtgtop8.com/format?f=MO
Because these numbers are completely fine.The fact that you think Become Immense is ban worthy is hilarious
October 11, 2016 12:45 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #6
See this has been the problem with modern lately.
Everyone always thinks something HAS to be banned. Problem with that is many people's thinking involves "I'm not going to sideboard for this bad matchup because it's gonna get banned" and then they get rekt by that matchup and complain about it being OP.
Let people adapt, let people sideboard, let people get rekt until they LEARN to adapt and not get the format handed to them on a platter.
October 11, 2016 2:04 p.m.
Shane.Allen says... #7
magicarp03 Me think that he has lost to infect one to many times, I was very happy for no bans it means that any player with any deck can win modern and that it comes down to SB and gameplay and not just playing a card which is what magic is about.
I just won our magic modern tournament I was playing infect but really saw not much of a advantage all the decks where good and it came down to match ups and playing out playing your opponent and as always good old fashioned luck, that's what real magic is about.
October 11, 2016 2:14 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #8
The decision to remove modern as a PT format probably contributed a lot to the lack of bannings. They don't have to force a pseudo rotation to get the new cards in and the tuning isn't as accelerated. The format is also in a relatively good spot right now although I am still salty that they banned all of the combo decks out of existence.
October 11, 2016 5:47 p.m.
logansullivan says... #9
If anything I would like to have a twin unbanning because the only reason that twin was banned was because modern was a pt format.
October 11, 2016 6:03 p.m.
Wait, what is a PT format? Sorry I play EDH almost exclusively so I don't bother much with the others.
October 11, 2016 8:17 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #12
Twin was banned because basically every U/R/X control deck was twin. EVERYTHING.
Now there are 3-4 different U/R/X decks that have different wincons.
October 11, 2016 8:36 p.m.
Ohthenoises definitely right on that, Twin should stay dead and buried for a very long time. If they unbanned it all we'd end up with is Jeskai NahiriTwin, every other URx deck would die overnight again. Twin was bad for the format for a very long time and entirely deserved its place on the ban list.
October 11, 2016 9:05 p.m.
logansullivan says... #14
No it was banned because it won the last pt and it was still being played. To create an artificial rotation in modern. It wasn't overplayed it wasn't oppressive it wasn't unfair, it was powerful and it was a good win con for control decks and now we have what? Jeskai control? Yeah quite a lot of control decks with different win cons.
October 11, 2016 9:07 p.m.
logansullivan that argument was entirely wrong from the start, twin was in the crosshairs for over a year before it was banned. There are several articles from SCG/TCG/CF etc from the Born/Journey period leading up to the Pod ban where the writers predict cards that they expect at least one of to be banned in the next year. Every one of these articles listed Pod and Twin. It had nothing to do with some forced rotation conspiracy, it had to do with the fact Twin was toxic to diversity among URx decks, was impossible to hate out of the meta, and was consistently had one of if not the largest average metashare for multiple years. When the format can't adapt to hate a deck like that out of the meta it is going to get banned.
October 11, 2016 9:15 p.m.
logansullivan says... #16
twin was in no way toxic it was entirely beatable it was just a consistent performer at tournaments because it was very easy to pilot, it was great for the format in that it kept the more degenerate decks down so fair decks could do things in the format. I personally saw many grixis decks that played no twin they just out valued other decks. I also saw many grixis decks with reanimator win cons. and you can say the same about it being a big part of the meta game about G/B/x decks too are they toxic to the meta? should goyf get banned? or should liliana? and a little more personal experience I was at a prerelease when I found out about the twin ban and about 70% of the modern players there were really surprised that it was banned the other ones were for the most part the people I know to be kinda salty. and the meta game argument is complete bull twin never cracked 18% of the meta.
October 11, 2016 9:43 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #17
I never said twin was toxic. What I said was that every single deck that existed at the time that was U/R/x and wasn't hyper aggressive (there weren't many at the time) had the twin core.
I mean why wouldn't you? Having a way to surprise win is great when you only have to run 6 creatures that can do double duty slowing your opponents down and 4 enchantments that read "gg". There was no room for any other wincons.
But what that meant is that there was no room for decks like Grixis control, nahiri Jeskai wouldn't be a thing, and the same could be said for a host of decks that have popped up since the banning. This left a whole part of the color pie as one deck. Grixis, temur, izzet, jeskai, they were ALL twin decks with the same 10 card core and the removal and alternate threats shuffled around with the mana base.
Yes, modern was their pet format at the time and they wanted to meddle but the fact of the matter is when you have one deck (various flavors of it but the same nonetheless) occupying an entire 2 color combination eschewing any other ways of winning I can see it.
TBH though I think they banned the wrong part of the twin combo. Twin with fair creatures would have been fine IMO but not in conjunction with the possible 8 ways in U to combo it with.
October 11, 2016 10:31 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #18
A direct quote from Aaron Forsythe's article on why Modern wasn't a good fit for PT and the direction they would like the format to take.
In order to try to present the players with a new environment to explore, we'd implement the changes to the banned list that we had identified throughout the previous year right before the Pro Tour
So no the artificial rotation isn't a conspiracy. They as much as admitted that the bannings were implemented in such a way to change the relevant pool of cards right before the PT.
October 11, 2016 10:36 p.m.
JaceArveduin says... #19
That, and while during GP's and such it had a normal meta share, I'm pretty sure they mentioned that at a Pro-Tour the share tended to jump, due to it's consistency and players who hit the pro-tour off of limited/standard picking it up as one of the easier, non-super aggro, lists to pick up.
Or I could be making shit up, I forget.
October 11, 2016 10:39 p.m.
Banning cards in formats like this should be a relatively rare occurence, saved for decks that are majorly spoiling the diversity of the format and more or less allow one to predict what will top any and every given tournament.
As an example of poor decision making in regards to bans, Konami bans and limits Yu-Gi-Oh! cards every (3 moths now, I think it is?) and something always changes. Things are always taken off too, but regardless. Sometimes it hits cards from decks that are being pretty oppressive. But once in recent history, and I believe at least one other time, the format was in a pretty good state (3-4 top tier decks, no single one superior to all others), so Konami banned key cards from ALL of them, essentially massacring an otherwise healthy tournament setting. It was appalling.
So, in a reasonable world, cards shouldn't be banned very frequently at all.
October 11, 2016 10:51 p.m.
logansullivan says... #21
Ohthenoises you didn't say that it was toxic Dhamlin was saying it was toxic
October 11, 2016 11:03 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #22
Just public info. If you're deck looses to Infect then Spellskite should probably be on your SB.
October 12, 2016 midnight
Shane.Allen says... #23
Helpful info, if your opponent puts Spellskite in their SB make sure you have Twisted Image in yours.
October 12, 2016 5:19 a.m.
Ohthenoises, logansullivan, I said it was toxic to the diversity of URx decks. How bout not picking and choosing phrases out of context.
Speaking of picking and choosing, how bout people actually read that quote from Forsythe, it doesn't say they banned stuff to force change, it says they would implemented the bans and changes before the modern PT after identifying them over the previous year. Now that is still problematic as it implies they'd delay possibly needed changes until PT which could have been an bad decision. However it nowhere implies that bans were made just to "shake up" the format. Just that PT was a good way to show off the effect any changes might have had.
October 12, 2016 9:05 a.m.
logansullivan says... #26
DHamlin the full quote was "PT predicates bans. They aren't random, and I was agreeing that the public should understand this." the definition of the word predicate is "something that is affirmed or denied of the subject in a proposition in logic" so this would seem to show that the bans were because of the PT rather than just at the time of it.
October 12, 2016 9:52 a.m.
Dredge4life says... #27
Surprised nobody mentioned Temur Scapeshift. Also, modern rocks right now. Nothing needs to get banned imo.
mathimus55 says... #2
Because the format adapts on a weekly basis and adjusts. The format is in a very healthy place right now, there weren't any decks that are overly oppressive. Infect still loses to all the bolt decks out there, it make win any given event but no deck is winning routinely. We were having the same conversation a month or 2 ago about dredge. People need to adapt and let the format ebb and flow instead of relying on banning cards to do the adapting for them.
October 11, 2016 11:53 a.m.