MS: Ashes

Lore forum

Posted on June 12, 2019, 12:39 p.m. by RicketyEng

In which we get the entire third act in one sitting. With the war over, now the recovery and rebuilding can begin.

Flooremoji says... #2

It was interesting, but I couldn't help but wonder when the Finale of Revelation and Prison Realm happend without reading the actual story.

June 12, 2019 4:06 p.m.

Flooremoji says... #3

I might have skipped a line though :)

June 12, 2019 4:07 p.m.

JANKYARD_DOG says... #4

Kaya's task may rub the wrong way with other watch members... and getting rid of Lily (or trying) would be a mistake I think.

June 12, 2019 6:18 p.m.

RicketyEng says... #5

They are covered in the novel, but Rat is not privy to what happens to Bolas.

Bolas's true fate as per Prison Realm . Show

June 12, 2019 6:20 p.m.

kanokarob says... #6

And as a final nail in Bolas' coffin... Show

June 12, 2019 8:47 p.m.

Boza says... #7

Are there any significant differences from the novel, I really did not notice anything apparant...?

June 13, 2019 8:38 a.m.

RicketyEng says... #8

Rat's moment with Hekara at the end was one of the saddest moments in the whole book.

Did anyone else notice the answer to how Mowu can planeswalk with Yanggu? I was satisfied with the simple explanation that everyone's spark is unique, but that wasn't good enough for a lot of people. So now we have a definitive answer for those folks.

Vraska's assignment to go after Baan was amusing because he no longer has eyes. I have since heard that her petrifying powers can still work on him but I don't know what the source is. In contrast to the opinion of a certain Professor, I actually think it's clever and won't be too easy for her which seems just.

Kaya's assignment to kill Liliana is definitely the most intriguing. It sets her up in a conflict of interests between the contract and her new Gatewatch allies. I'm sure she will have a chat with them and together they can figure out what to do about it. I'm pretty sure Jace was able to glean enough from Liliana to figure out her side of the story, or at least enough to know there is more to it than a simple betrayal.

Last week we had some discussion about Niv-Mizzet's resurrection and subsequent nappy time. I had to avoid the spoiler that he gets back up and helps again. Hopefully his final contribution is a bit more satisfying to anyone who was disappointed with him taking a nap.

Dack Fayden's death came unexpectedly in the novel. That is, I did know he would die in the book, but wasn't ready for it when it actually happened. Something the story from Rat's perspective wasn't able to portray was Dack's story. At several points he makes decisions to help and is inspired somewhat by the Gatewatch similar to Kaya. He even consciously makes the same Gatewatch-y choice to stay and fight instead of running away when he had the opportunity. Throughout the novel I was given the impression that he was building up to also consider joining the Gatewatch if he survived. Then during a moment of self reflection he is suddenly harvested and by the time he realizes what is happening it is already too late.

I found Jace and Vraska's hand holding and physical affections strange. The Ixalan story said Vraska didn't like being touched. It's possible that she is ok with making an exception for Jace, and wars have a way of pushing people together like that too. However, I didn't see them gradually warm up to the idea as I would have expected; they were immediately at a hand holding comfort level.

June 13, 2019 8:43 a.m.

RicketyEng says... #9

Boza, indeed I found the whole war from Rat's perspective to be completely consistent with the novel. There are even sections which I'm certain are directly copied. Of course there are missing details for the parts where Rat wasn't present or privy, but I hope that helps to convince people to read the book.

For anyone with doubts about reading the novel, it's the same author so the writing style is similar. Rat's perspective was told in fist person but the novel is in third person and from many planeswalkers' perspectives in turn. Also, contrary to the Professor's opinion on it, it is not simply a whole book about Jace and friends trying to fight their way across a plaza to Bolas (that was left for the third act).

June 13, 2019 8:57 a.m.

Phaetion says... #10

Personally, I'm glad JacexVraska was kept. But taking about the assignments:

Ral vs. Tezzeret is something I'd pay to see. I want to say Dovin vs. Vraska would be easy, since the former's blind. We'll see.

But the most interesting is Kaya vs. Liliana. Considering Kaya's moral code, she might come around to not killing Liliana. My theory is that Liliana will die the story when they met, but it won't be Kaya who takes her out.

June 13, 2019 11:52 a.m.

JANKYARD_DOG says... #11

Theory: Kaya tracks Lily to wherever, and Lily convinces her to help with something (likely Garruk related), and I loathe to say it but enter gatewatch, drama ensues, job gets done, lily's forgiven, let's not tell Niv.

June 13, 2019 noon

Phaetion says... #12

Also, some bigger questions: What will become of Ravnica now? Everyone on the plane knows about 'Walkers (peanuts. I'm not sorry), and this is the aftermath of a huge war. Heck, wasn't planeswalking supposed to be kept hushed up? I'm sure there's some implications there.

Will Ravnica become a multiversal hub for Planeswalkers? Become some kind of Planeswalker/Gatewatch HQ, like in the Justice League series of old? Or will it return to its roots as best as it can?

June 13, 2019 1:10 p.m.

CrimsonChaos says... #13

In regards to Dovin's blindness, in addition to being resistant to Vraska's petrification abilities, his penchant for understanding weaknesses also allows him to understand how to acclimate and account for them too. He'll probably be able to to find a way to fight without sight, if necessary. More likely, he'll probably take precautions to ensure he doesn't get caught up in a direct confrontation altogether. Given his recent failure, he'll furthermore probably be even more cautious as well. Dovin is definitely going to be a challenge for Vraska to deal with, one way or another.

June 13, 2019 1:13 p.m.

RicketyEng says... #14

Wrt Ravnica going forward, I think the guilds and the Guildpact are probably now in a very stable place. The war forced them to co-operate and a new and improved Living Guildpact came from that co-operation. I think many of the small spats and rivalries will continue to exist, but as a whole the plane is probably about to see a time of great prosperity.

I think planeswalkers usually try to keep their nature quiet because most common folks on any given plane probably can't comprehend the concept. When a plane like Ravnica gets invaded by another plane, saying that cover is kind of blown is a bit of an understatement. In Ravnica's case I wonder if some citizens will become distrustful of planeswalkers or even hostile toward them. Perhaps some others will have their eyes opened to new avenues of profit.

June 13, 2019 3:37 p.m.

DemonDragonJ says... #15

There was a great amount of action in this week’s story, and, as usual, many characters involved; WotC may say that it is a coincidence, but I still feel that the similarities to the final battle in Avengers: Endgame were very strong.

I noticed that both Sorin and Nahiri were mentioned in the same sentence, and they were not attempting to kill each other; did they actually reconcile? Also, how could Rat be familiar with Kor, when they are not native to Ravncia?

I still feel that this story was rushed, but it certainly was dramatic, with numerous instances of the audience being led to believe that everyone was either saved or doomed, and the manner in which Bolas was finally defeated was quite epic, as well.

I am glad that Hekara remembered Rat, but very sad that she was not able to see Rat, and then promptly forgot her when someone else arrived; that certainly made the ending very bittersweet.

I see that there are several unresolved plot lines that need to be resolved; first, who shall be the masters of the new guilds? It seems that Vraska is still the master of the Golgari, but Kaya, Niv-Mizzet, Domri, and Isperia are either dead or in other positions, so their guilds shall need new masters (I personally believe that Borborygmos shall return to being master of the Gruul, Lavinia shall be the new master of the Azorious, Teysa shall be the new master of the Orzhov, and Ral shall be the new master of the Izzet). Also, three of the planeswalkers who assisted Bolas escaped, so I expect that the searches for them shall be major plot lines in upcoming sets and blocks. Also, what shall be done with the Immortal Sun? I agree with Angrath that it should be destroyed, since it is more harmful than helpful, but I suppose that Jace does have a point in that it would be useful in trapping the planeswalkers whom they are seeking.

Why did Karn mention Ob-Nixilis? As far as I know, the two of them never met before this story, so Karn would have no reason to dislike him. I am very glad that Jace and Vraska seem to have reconciled, so I hope that they do not have any further trouble between themselves.

After this titanic battle, I expect that the next several story arcs shall be fairly minor, as WotC would not wish to have another massive climactic battle so soon.

RicketyEng, why could Ugin not simply let Bolas die? What reason is there to keep him alive?

Also, the fact that all the sparks that were harvested evaporated into nothing was disappointing; think of all that power that was lost!

June 13, 2019 9:07 p.m.

CrimsonChaos says... #16

The future of Ravnica is definitely something that’ll have some interest going forward. Maybe during Core 2020 it’ll address some of the loose ends on that. With Dovin out of the way, Isperia eliminated, and Azor indisposed, I think Lavinia could be an exceptional guildmaster for the Azorius. I would also guess with Domri gone, Borborygmos would re-assume his position of guildmaster of the Gruul. As for Orzhov, Izzet, and Golgari, given their leaders are on the hook to atone for their association with Bolas, I’m not entirely sure if Kaya, Ral, and Vraska are maintaining their positions at their respective guilds’ heads. It wasn’t explicitly stated iirc whether they were still acting as guildmasters or if they were suspended until they complete their respective assignments. Furthermore, I’m interested to see what exactly went down with Teysa to make her fall out of favor for the head of Orzhov after the assassination of the Ghost Council, and how Kaya actually got assigned as guildmaster instead. It seems like the supplemental stories are going to cover that, anyway.

It’ll certainly also be interesting how Ravnicans handle the discovery of Planeswalkers moving forward. When it comes down to it, Lavinia, Emmara, Aurelia, etc. will probably be advocates of their presence on Ravnica, pending certain stipulations to prevent future incursions and such. There will probably be opposition to them by certain guilds, no doubt. Niv’s word will probably be the final word, and who knows which way he’ll favor. I’m guessing this will be a plot point that steers the story away from Ravnica for a while to give focus to other planes for a time.

June 13, 2019 9:07 p.m.

DemonDragonJ says... #17

RicketyEng, WotC keeps saying that they wish to keep planeswalkers unique and have only them be able to travel across the planes, but, realistically, it is only logical that citizens of various plans will wish to study and research planeswalkers, and possibly even find a way to synthetically replicate planeswalker sparks; think of how often people in actuality have replicated natural processes with science and technology. It would strain credibility if people in this universe did not attempt to build more planar portals or seek to make artificial sparks.

June 13, 2019 9:11 p.m.

Boza says... #18

DemonDragonJ, individuals without the spark do not fathom the existence of a Multiverse or the Blind Eternities. It is really hard to do something that you have no idea exists. For example, try to imagine how a color that does not exist looks like.

Additionally, in the post-Time Spiral story, there have been 0 ways for living things without a spark to planeswalk.

June 14, 2019 3:28 a.m.

DemonDragonJ says... #19

Boza, that idea is clearly false, since there are plenty of non-planeswalker characters in this story who can comprehend the idea of planes beyond their own, and most people in actuality can imagine the idea of planets or universes beyond our own, as well.

June 14, 2019 5:32 p.m.

Boza says... #20

"The defining trait of planeswalkers is the ability to travel between separate universes with ease, while the vast majority of people throughout the multiverse are not even aware that other worlds beside their own exist."

I got this off the wiki on planeswalkers. Even if you know something must exist beyond our current comprehension (it is a defining trait of knowledge - the more you learn, the more you learn how much more you have to learn), however, accurately imagining something beyond our current capabilities is not something we can do.

Lets try with another example - how does the Earth's core look like? We know it is there, but how does it look like? Does it move around? In what pattern? What color is it? At best, you might have an educated guess of a white hot pool of molten metal swishing around, but the more particular you get with it, the harder it becomes.

I imagine it is similar to imagine another Earth just like ours, but where there are only two continents, Dinosaurs are alive and under the control of the Aztec, who are being invaded by vampiric forces of conquistadors, while fishfolk roam the waters, who are also infested with pirates. But all that is a thought exercise in describing Ixalan, not actual knowledge.

A more accurate real-world example would be the Higgs boson, aka God particle. There were numerous theories and mathematical exercises that proved its existance beyond the shadow of a doubt, but it became the news of the year when it was actually observed IRL. We were able to learn more about it by observing too, which is a bonus.

June 14, 2019 7:56 p.m.

RicketyEng says... #21

Ugin's reasons for keeping Bolas alive were along the lines of he's died and come back before so there is too much risk in letting him die.

June 15, 2019 7:45 a.m.

RicketyEng says... #22

Edit: it accidentally double posted so I'll change this one.

I think Rat could be 5-coloured. Any thoughts?

June 15, 2019 7:46 a.m. Edited.

JANKYARD_DOG says... #23

I had the same theory about rat. See here for my current take on her as a card.

June 15, 2019 8:44 a.m.

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