When do creature lands untap?
Asked by DaddyRabbit78 5 years ago
TL;DR - I need to see the official rules that say when a land becomes a creature, taps to attack, then goes back to being just a land at end of turn, it remains tapped.
A buddy of mine played Mutavault. Then paid the (1) to turn it into a 2/2 creature and tried to attack with it.
We convinced him that he cannot do that because the now-creature (that's still a land) had summoning sickness.
On his next turn, he pays the (1) and turns it into a creature again. This time, it CAN attack, so he attacks with it. Creature deals damage, creature lives, at end of turn, just a land again.
Here's where the potential confusion lies. At the end of his turn, he placed it with the rest of his lands untapped. We argued that this was illegal. Here's how we tried to explain it:
Because of "it's still a land", the land becomes a creature that also has the abilities of lands meaning if he wanted to, he can tap the creature for mana and can be destroyed as a creature or a land. Also, you can tap it for mana OR attack with it or it can be tapped via an ability, but not any of these at the same time, and once it's tapped, it's tapped.
At the end of the turn, it didn't "turn back into a land", it just lost it's creature type as it never lost being a land type. Thus, when he tapped it to attack, it is supposed to remain tapped until either a, his next untap phase, or b, if an effect or ability untaps it.
Unfortunately, unless he sees this in some form of official rules, it will be an arguable issue. Can someone site the official rules/errata that clarifies this?
What your friend fails to note, as well, is that even if it was "turning back into a land" (and not just losing the creature type), that doesn't untap it anymore than turning into a creature in the first place untaps it unless specifically stated. In this case, if he tapped Mutavault for and then spent that on its "turn into a creature" ability, it would still be tapped from being tapped for mana, because the ability doesn't say "untap it."
As for the card needing to remain tapped until your untap step or another effect lets you untap it, that's basic game rules. I can't seem to find specific rules to reference anywhere. You could point out that it's similar to the difference in gaining control of a creature via an effect like Act of Treason, where you are specifically told to untap the stolen creature, versus Mind Control, where it doesn't specifically state it (and thus if you Mind Control a tapped creature, it will come under your control still tapped).
It's a basic game thing. Cards don't untap just because they changed permanent type.
As Neotrup said, if he wants to attack with a land-creature and still use it for mana, he needs vigilance.
September 16, 2018 7:01 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... Accepted answer #3
110.6. A permanent’s status is its physical state. There are four status categories, each of which has two possible values: tapped/untapped, flipped/unflipped, face up/face down, and phased in/phased out. Each permanent always has one of these values for each of these categories.
110.6c A permanent retains its status until a spell, ability, or turn-based action changes it, even if that status is not relevant to it.
September 17, 2018 7:07 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #4
No spell, ability, or turn based action changed the status from tapped to untapped. Ergo it is still tapped.
September 17, 2018 7:09 a.m.
Thanks, Gidgetimer. I must have scrolled past that one at least a hundred times while searching the rules.
September 17, 2018 12:59 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #6
No problem. There are certain things that experienced players just take for granted. I like to run a keyword search and read the entire rule for any hit when looking for things that seem to be "just the way it is". Most of those will be somewhere in the 100 series of rules, so you shouldn't have to read too many.
Neotrup says... #1
For official rulings always go to gatherer.wizards.com, as this site is not official:
8/1/2008: A noncreature permanent that turns into a creature can attack, and its Tap abilities can be activated, only if its controller has continuously controlled that permanent since the beginning of their most recent turn. It doesn’t matter how long the permanent has been a creature.
As for untapping a permanent, you only do that during you untap step, or if an effect specifically tells you to. If your friend wants to attack with a land and still be able to use it for mana they should be using Celestial Colonnade.
September 16, 2018 10:35 a.m.