Sundial of the Infinite and EOT effects... do I understand this correctly?
Asked by Joshuawesome 12 years ago
Okay, okay, I understand how Sundial of the Infinite
and Final Fortune
interact... but I wanna make sure I'm understanding right in that it pretty much gets rid of all EOT effects. Some examples:
Diminish
: Would Sundial of the Infinite
make the creature a 1/1 forever?
Hydrosurge
: Would the Sundial make the -5/-0 permanent here?Insurrection
: Would the Sundial allow me to control all creatures moving forward?
I can go on like this forever, but I'm sure you see my point. Help?
Joshuawesome says... #2
So yes.
Thanks a million, just wanted to be 100% clear.
May 8, 2013 11:27 p.m.
To elaborate, "..."this turn" and "until end of turn" effects end." means literally that. The turn ends, so effects end as they normally would.
May 8, 2013 11:27 p.m.
It says on the card that "until end of turn" effects end. That would mean that Diminish and Insurrection s effects would end immediately. The creature would go back to being whatever P/T it was with its original abilities and your opponent would regain control of their creatures.
May 8, 2013 11:29 p.m.
Joshuawesome says... #6
Okay, now I'm confused a bit. It doesn't take much.
Why would it work for Final Fortune
and not Insurrection
. Because of the whole next turn thing? (Fortune reads: "At the end of that turn")
May 8, 2013 11:36 p.m.
Here's a ruling given a long time ago:
"Final Fortune creates a delayed trigger that triggers "at the beginning of that turn's end step". Unlike many other triggers that trigger "at the beginning of the next end step", this one will not trigger if you Sundial before the end step of that turn.
A comparative example Crumbling Colossus . If you Sundial before the trigger goes on the stack at the beginning of the end of combat step, it will trigger and go on the stack during the next turn's end of combat step. If you Sundial after the trigger has gone on the stack, it won't trigger again in a future end of combat step. Since Final Fortune specifically says the end of "that turn's" end step (meaning the extra turn created by Final Fortune), it won't be able to trigger again if you Sundial at any point in that turn."
May 8, 2013 11:38 p.m.
The confusing bit is the printed wording on Final Fortune , versus its Oracle text. The way to make Final Fortune work with Sundial of the Infinite is to let the next turn get to its end step, and the delayed trigger that says "You lose the game" then goes on the stack. You then activate the Sundial's ability, and it removes everything from the stack, including "You lose the game", and ends your free extra turn ever so barely prematurely.
What doesn't work is trying to extend something that only lasts "until end of turn", because the Sundial explicitly states that those effects end as though you'd had an entire end step and cleanup and all that.
May 8, 2013 11:43 p.m.
Joshuawesome says... #10
Last thing.... I've seen decks that use Sundial with Mimic Vat and Dawn of the Dead . Does it work for those two?
May 8, 2013 11:57 p.m.
It does.
The difference is that cards like Mimic Vat , Dawn of the Dead , etc. have triggers that go on the stack "at the beginning of the end step." Sundial of the Infinite clears out those triggers if you activate it right after they go on the stack, and they never trigger again.
Diminish , Hydrosurge , and Insurrection , on the other hand, create effects that just last "until end of turn." There's no trigger that goes on the stack for those; they just stop at the end of the turn. Using the Sundial simply ends the turn sooner, causing those effects to stop sooner.
May 9, 2013 12:30 a.m.
Joshuawesome says... #12
Alright, I get it. (helps I googled up an article specifically on the card and how to use it)
Thanks all for the answers!
May 9, 2013 12:32 a.m.
Joshuawesome says... #13
Okay okay okay, last question, I swear on the life and hope of rebirth lol..
Does Sundial of the Infinite
work with the Unearth ability? Unearth reads: "Exile it at the beginning of the next end step"
When the exile is on the stack, can I clear it with Sundial?
May 9, 2013 12:41 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #15
The use of "when/whenever/at" tells you that an ability is a triggered ability. Unearth sets up a delayed trigger that triggers at the beginning of the next end step. If you activate Sundial of the Infinite when that trigger is on the stack, it will be exiled and it won't trigger again.
The key thing here is that the End phase has 2 steps: end and cleanup. Abilities that trigger "at the beginning of the end step" do just what they say, and trigger at the beginning of the end step. "Until end of turn" and "this turn" effects wear off at the start of the cleanup step. When you activate Sundial, it skips the current turn straight to the cleanup step, which is why "until end of turn" and "this turn" effects end. There's no way (well, except for Staying Power from Un-land) to make "until end of turn" or "this turn" effects carry over across turns.
Skyfolk says... #1
The reminder text of the Sundial answers your question.
May 8, 2013 11:24 p.m.