Solar Blaze Not Damage?
Asked by seaplain 3 years ago
on MTG Arena, I had Stormwild Capridor out with 12 power and Truefire Captain. I played Gideon's Sacrifice targeting the truefire, then played Solar Blaze. I expected it to deal 16 damage to truefire, but instead it did 12 to stormwild and 4 to truefire. Does solar blaze not count as damage the way gideon's sac is worded? Why would stormwild still get hit with the damage?
Thanks Tylord2894. That's really interesting. I run cards like Deafening Clarion and Storm's Wrath and they have no problem with gideon's sac so I was very confused. Maybe I'll send it in to Arena as a bug. Thanks!
July 9, 2020 3:20 p.m.
Tylord2894 says... #3
Ya, I would recommend submitting a ticket. As far as Stormwild Capridor and Gideon's Sacrifice are concerned, there is no difference between the damage from something like Deafening Clarion and Solar Blaze.
July 9, 2020 3:33 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #4
It's not really a "bug", it's just Arena's game engine making a choice one way when it could have been made the other way. I'm not familiar with Arena so I don't know if it's even capable of letting you make the choice for situations like this versus making the choice itself.
Are you saying Deafening Clarion and Storm's Wrath do produce the interaction you want with Stormwild Capridor + Gideon's Sacrifice?
July 9, 2020 3:48 p.m. Edited.
Rhadamanthus I thought it did but I realized I had only ever tried directing damage TO Stormwild Capridor, which works, but not away.
I was just testing it again and I had Gideon Blackblade and Brash Taunter out. I played Gideon's Sacrifice on the taunter and played Storm's Wrath. It only dealt 4 damage to my opponent rather than the 8 I expected, although no damage was done to Gideon. Seems to be a stacking issue with any damage and redirect.
My original issue still doesn't make sense to me though because Solar Blaze still dealt damage to all my creatures, at least this new time prevented damage to Gideon.
July 10, 2020 12:17 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #6
seaplain Maybe I didn't understand part of your original situation. Do you mean Stormwild Capridor actually dealt 12 damage to itself and its ability didn't prevent any of it? If so that means the engine isn't considering the damage the creatures deal to themselves as non-combat damage, which is definitely a bug.
July 10, 2020 9:18 a.m.
Rhadamanthus That is correct, each creature did damage to itself, and then Truefire Captain directed 4 damage. Stormwild Capridor went from a 12/14 to a 24/26. Stormwild Capridor's ability acted as if Gideon's Sacrifice was never played. I believe that is why Tylord2894 mentioned it being an issue with the order of redirect abilities resolving.
July 10, 2020 12:57 p.m.
Tylord2894 says... #8
seaplain, I want to underscore that I don't know how Arena is doing what it's doing. Arena is notorious for making decisions for you that are really bad (skipping priority passes and poor auto-tapping to name a few). This might be an "issue" with not having full control on. But again, I can't say for sure.
As you said, there are very similar interactions with things like Deafening Clarion. When filling tickets, showing that certain interactions work and others don't is extremely helpful. I would play a couple of matches with a friend and set up these interactions. Try different damage sources, replacement effects, and having full-control on/off. Record the board-state prior to the result. That way the devs can see that its reproducible. There's also a chance that you misclicked or are misremembering. This way, you can be completely certain of what's going on since you'll have video evidence.
July 10, 2020 1:16 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #9
seaplain If Stormwild Capridor went from 12/14 to 24/26 then there's no bug. Arena is just making a decision instead of letting you make a decision.
As Tylord2894 explained, if more than one prevention and/or replacement effect is trying to modify how an event would affect an object, the affected object's controller decides which one to apply.
- In your example there are 2 effects trying to modify how damage would be dealt to the Capridor: the Capridor's own ability and Gideon's Sacrifice. Under the standard rules of the game you would get to choose which one to apply
- If you apply the Sacrifice's effect first then the Capridor's effect can't apply because there's no longer any damage being dealt to it
- Likewise, if you apply the Capridor's effect first then the Sacrifice's effect can't apply because the damage was prevented
- However, in your example the Arena rules engine is choosing for you instead of letting you choose. It seems to be prioritizing the creature's own effect over other effects (that's also why you get the result you saw with Gideon Blackblade)
Tylord2894 says... Accepted answer #1
In short, this is a bug on Arena. You should be able to choose what happens here. This outcome is legal, but the reason why doesn't follow the rules.
When you resolve Solar Blaze, there are multiple replacement effects affecting the damage to Stormwild Capridor, namely these effects are the Capridor's replacement effect and the replacement effect from Gideon's Sacrifice. When multiple replacement effects are trying to replace the same event, certain replacement effects are applied before others. In this case, these two replacement effects have the same level of "importance" and the controller of the affected creature chooses the order they apply/which one applies. You, as the controller of the Capridor, should be able to choose whether the Capridor's prevention effect or the Sacrifice's "redirection" effect takes over.
I've included the relevant rules below. I did not include the "order of importance" rules for replacement effects as they don't really affect this, but you can read through it between rules 616.1a-e (found here).
Hope this helps!!
120.4b Second, damage is dealt, as modified by replacement and prevention effects that interact with damage. (See rule 614, “Replacement Effects,” and rule 615, “Prevention Effects.”) Abilities that trigger when damage is dealt trigger now and wait to be put on the stack.
616.1. If two or more replacement and/or prevention effects are attempting to modify the way an event affects an object or player, the affected object’s controller (or its owner if it has no controller) or the affected player chooses one to apply, following the steps listed below. If two or more players have to make these choices at the same time, choices are made in APNAP order (see rule 101.4).
July 9, 2020 2:45 p.m.