questions about nevermore

Asked by Cyber Locc 13 years ago

okay so i have some questions about nevermore

1. if i use Redirect on use Nevermore can i change the target to Nevermore cant i counter it at all

also about redirect can i redirect Sever the Bloodline and again target it self

1. in edh can i use Nevermore on someones general and i know if nevermore leaves its affect stays. so therefor can i destroy it return it and do it to someone else's general?
2. it said on nevermore rulings that cards cant be cast but that abiltys can still bring it back so if the card that is Nevermored is in my graveyard and i for instead play Unburial Rites would that bring it back

MagnorCriol says... #1

1. You can't use Redirect on Nevermore. A card doesn't target anything unless it specifically says "target" in the text box.And while Redirect can affect Sever the Bloodline, you can't make Sever target itself. Sever exiles creatures, and Sever itself is a sorcery, not a creature.
2. You can absolutely use Nevermore to stop someone from casting their general. However, whoever told you that Nevermore's effect stays if it leaves was absolutely wrong. If a card leaves the battlefield its effect is gone - how can Nevermore tell the game that a card can't be cast if it's not around to tell it? Therefore, if Nevermore is removed, its effect ends and the named card can be cast again. If you bring it back somehow, you can choose the same card or a different one, but it has no relation to its previous existence.
3. Yes to this. All Nevermore does is stop the casting of the named card, so any other means of bringing onto the field - including Rites, Quicksilver Amulet, Show and Tell, and innumerable other ways to 'cheat' a card into play - work just fine.

January 27, 2012 11:38 p.m.

Cyber Locc says... #2

your right im sorry read it wrong thanxs for the awnser and ya didnt think about the creature thing lol also can you counter nevermore at all the reason i ask is

from wizards rulings- No one can cast spells or activate abilities between the time a card is named and the time that Nevermore's ability starts to work.

also what if a card is already in play when someone cast nevermore it satys but no more can come right

January 27, 2012 11:52 p.m.

hunter9000 says... #3

Correct, once a card becomes a permanent, it doesn't matter if you can't cast it. The spell that created the permanent is already done being cast.

January 28, 2012 midnight

Cyber Locc says... #4

okay well the main question was can i lets say Cancel nevermore when its being cast

January 28, 2012 12:05 a.m.

KrazyCaley says... #5

You can absolutely counter Nevermore. Don't see why you wouldn't be able to. Was there some specific reason you thought you couldn't?

January 28, 2012 12:20 a.m.

Cyber Locc says... #6

from wizards rulings- No one can cast spells or activate abilities between the time a card is named and the time that Nevermore's ability starts to work.

naming the card is an etb effect so wouldnt it go on the stack before the cancel therefore you cant cast cancel inbetween naming the card and nevermores effect but naming the card has already happened before you played the cancel or does it cancel because its in response so happens before the etb effect

January 28, 2012 12:26 a.m.

hunter9000 says... #7

Nevermore's ability doesn't begin to work until after it becomes a permanent, which is after the enchantment spell resolves. That's too late to counter Nevermore, or any other spell, no matter what etb abilities it has. When Nevermore is still on the stack, it's etb hasn't triggered yet, so it's just an enchantment spell like any other.

January 28, 2012 12:39 a.m.

KrazyCaley says... #8

Right. You don't name the card for Nevermore until Nevermore RESOLVES. A card enters the battlefield when it leaves the stack, so you have plenty of time to counter it or do whatever you want with it while it is on the stack, before it enters the battlefield.

January 28, 2012 12:42 a.m.

MagnorCriol says... Accepted answer #9

hunter9000 and KrazyCaley are correct. What that Wizards ruling is referring to is that it's illegal to wait for Nevermore to resolve, hear what they want to block with it, and try and cast spells "in response to it" before it resolves. That just doesn't work, because of how Nevermore is worded.

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Bonus rules triva!: If Nevermore read "When Nevermore enters the battlefield..." instead of "As Nevermore enters the battlefield..." then you would actually totally be able to respond to it the way I described above. This is because of the vast MTG rules difference in those two seemingly similar words:

• Abilities that say "When [this card] enters the battlefield..." create a triggered ability that goes on the stack as soon as that card becomes a permanent on the battlefield. The card gets cast, resolves off the stack, enters the battlefield, then its trigger goes on the stack. Because the trigger uses the stack, it can be responded to and interacted with, and state-based actions are checked between the permanent hitting the battlefield and the trigger going on the stack.
• Abilities that say "As [this card] enters the battlefield..." are replacement effects, meaning they change the fundamental way that permanent enters the field. The card gets cast, resolves, then does whatever it says as it's coming in, so it never exists on the battlefield without that effect or ability having its impact. Because this doesn't use the stack, it can't be interacted with, and SBAs aren't checked until afterwards.

This is how Clone works, for instance - if it used "When" instead of "as," then after it hit the field, SBAs would check it and see that its toughness is zero and send it to the graveyard - it'd be completely nonfunctional.

January 28, 2012 1:23 a.m.

MagnorCriol says... #10

The more you know! (TM)

The above novella brought to you by the "Magnor wanted to see if he was any good at explaining things" foundation.

January 28, 2012 1:24 a.m.