Origins planeswalkers' interaction with unearth.
Asked by F0rce0fWill 8 years ago
So here's the situation. A Sedris, the Traitor King, an Altar of Dementia and a zombie token are sitting on the battlefield under my control. A Liliana, Heretical Healer Flip is in my graveyard. If I unearth Liliana, then sacrifice the zombie token to Altar of Dementia, Liliana's transform ability will trigger. Does this ability work with unearth like Ghostly Flicker does? Meaning, does she transform into Liliana, Defiant Necromancer, and then if she dies or if I end the turn, will she not be exiled?
The same situation, but with Mimic Vat, Liliana, Heretical Healer Flip imprinted. If i make a token of Liliana, Heretical Healer Flip with Mimic Vat, then sac another creature, will she transform or not (since it is a token, will she stay exiled either way?)? And will she avoid the mimic vat exile?
Epochalyptik says... #2
If the card itself is returned, it will be fine. Unearth's replacement effect only cares if the creature would go to any zone other than exile. Because the Origins planeswalker creatures exile themselves to transform, they'll "survive" the transform ability and come back as a transformed planeswalker that's no longer tied to the exile clause of unearth.
Tokens aren't so lucky. Whenever a token changes zones, it remains in the new zone until the next time state-based actions are checked. At that time, the token will cease to exist. So the replacement effect of unearth doesn't matter, but the token rules do.
September 22, 2015 11:42 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #3
@sonnet666: You're correct apart from the technical detail that tokens cease to exist as a state-based action, they don't disappear immediately.
September 22, 2015 11:44 a.m.
Also:
711.1. A double-faced card has a Magic card face on each side rather than a Magic card face on oneside and a Magic card back on the other. Each face may have abilities that allow the permanent totransform, or turn over to its other face. Tokens and cards with a Magic card back canttransform. (See rule 701.25, Transform.)
Even if you were to get some loyalty counters on the copy of Liliana and cast Moonmist, the token could not be transformed by any means. The same applies to more traditional methods of copying creatures, like Clone.
sonnet666 says... Accepted answer #1
1) Yes this works. And is mostly the same as Ghostly Flicker.
The exile clause of unearth only exiles if the unearthed creature would be put into a zone other than the exile zone. If the unearthed creature would be exiled due to an effect, it is exiled normally, and any additional instructions of what to do with the exiled creature card are followed normally as well.
If a permanent leaves the battlefield and returns to it., it is a new object with no memory of it's previous existence. Any effect that instructed you do something to the old object does not apply to the new one.
Liliana, Heretical Healer Flip gets unearthed due to Sedris, the Traitor King's ability, goes into exile when another NONTOKEN creature dies (so, not a zombie token), comes back as Liliana, Defiant Necromancer, and odes not get exiled at the next end step.
2) No this does not work.
Mimic Vat creates a TOKEN copy of the card imprinted on it. Tokens cease to exist immediately if placed in any zone other than the battlefield.
If the token Liliana's triggered ability were to resolve, she would be exiled and immediately poof out of existence. She would not be able to be returned to the battlefield transformed.
September 22, 2015 11:42 a.m.