Infinite Planeswalker Ability
Asked by mozerdozer 14 years ago
Rule 212.9f Each planeswalker has a number of activated abilities. A player may play an activated ability of a planeswalker only during a main phase of his or her turn, when he or she has priority and the stack is empty, and only if none of its activated abilities have been played that turn. The cost to play an activated ability of a planeswalker is to put on or remove from that planeswalker a certain number of loyalty counters, as shown by the loyalty symbol in the abilitys cost. An ability with a negative loyalty cost cant be played unless the planeswalker has at least that many loyalty counters on it.
This rule says that the ability's of planeswalkers are activated abilities and that a planeswalker can only use an ability once per turn. But... what if a non-planeswalker has their activated abilities?This probably seems impossible, but it is not.Myr Welder taps to imprint Molten-Tail Masticore . Then, using the Masticore's first ability, it exiles Scrib Nibblers . Then because you exiled Scrib Nibblers using the ability of Myr Welder, it now has its abilities as well. After this, all that is done is tapping Myr Welder to exile the top card of my own library where I know a planeswalker is, either using scry, Noxious Revival , etc. Now Myr Welder has exiled a planeswalker and thus would get all of its activated abilities, which according to the above rule are considered activated abilities and thus are acquired by Myr Welder . However, it says the planeswalker may only use one of their abilities per turn, but it's not a planeswalker. Also the end of the rule says a planeswalker can only use a negative costing ability if it has at least that much loyalty, but again, it is not a planeswalker using the ability. So if I get a planeswalker exiled with Myr Welder , can I use the abilities as much as I want and negative ones as well?
Make the planes walker an artifact with Argent Mutation or Liquimetal Coating , then kill it and use Myr Welder
June 18, 2011 11:06 a.m.
Justarsaus says... #3
xo2 nope because they stop being artifacts the second they hit the grave yard
June 18, 2011 2:11 p.m.
actually there's another way to give a creature planeswalker abilities. using Experiment Kraj to put a +1/+1 counter on a planeswalker. you would have to have Mycosynth Lattice and March of the Machines out with it tho. but even with that i believe you still can only use the ability once.
June 18, 2011 4:14 p.m.
Experiment Kraj puts a +1/+1 counter on creatures, not planeswalkers. Even still, if you made a planeswalker a creature, the Experiment Kraj still would not have the loyalty counters required as the cost to activate a loyalty ability.
June 18, 2011 5:42 p.m.
AegairEtapa says... #6
Yeah but mafteechr it'd still be able to use the + loyalty abilities at first.
June 18, 2011 6:09 p.m.
MagnorCriol says... Accepted answer #7
Kraj would be able to use PW abilities that add loyalty counters to it, and then later use abilities that subtract loyalty counters once it has enough of them on it. All the PW abilities care about is whether or not you can add or remove a certain amount of loyalty counters; how they got there, or whether or not the permanent they're on has a loyalty characteristic, isn't important to them.
There's a much more specific passage in the CR that relates to all of this, though:
606. Loyalty Abilities606.2. An activated ability with a loyalty symbol in its cost is a loyalty ability. Normally, only planeswalkers have loyalty abilities.606.3. A player may activate a loyalty ability of a permanent he or she controls any time he or she has priority and the stack is empty during a main phase of his or her turn, but only if no player has previously activated a loyalty ability of that permanent that turn.Both are pertinent here. #2 defines loyalty abilities and tells us that they can be on non-PWs (note how it says "normally only planeswalkers...") #3 tells us in no uncertain terms that no matter what the permanent that's activating a loyalty ability is, it can only use them once per turn - regardless of what player activates them, so even if you steal control of it somehow you can't activate it if they've already done so.
June 18, 2011 6:25 p.m.
mozerdozer says... #8
Yea the rules on mtg salvation wiki said "planeswalkers" instead of "permanents". I generally refer to it instead of the actual rules since they're so long.
June 18, 2011 9:37 p.m.
xxxxxxCronoxxxxxx says... #9
myr welder says it only gains the ability of cards myr welder exiles its self
June 19, 2011 5:51 a.m.
Also I talked with wizards about this combo and the two abilities on the Myr Welder are linked. This means only the ability it has to exile artifacts will give it activated abilities. Even if you exile Graveyard Shovel you could not then exile any card and take its abilities. It would exile the card but Myr Welder will not get any abilities.
ranban says... #1
Not so fast mozerdozer. The activated ability ability on Myr Welder is ruled by the imprint ability. Myr Welder only gets card abilities that were imprinted by it. So this combo doesn't work, sorry.
June 18, 2011 10:27 a.m.