If I cast a Dragonstorm, and then copy it using Dualcaster Mage, does the copy of Dragonstorm resolve to allow me to search for 3 dragons because of the Storm effect on it?

Asked by Harper26 10 years ago

Soooooo I just ran into this today, and I did it, having the copy resolve for 3, but was questioned about it. In my mind, it made sense, in my opponent's mind, it did not, and I'm asking you guys because I'm not as knowledgable as you may be.

Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #1

The reminder text for the Storm ability on Dragonstorm makes it clear that Storm is a triggered ability (starts with "when/whenever/at") that triggers "when you cast this spell". A copy of a spell isn't cast unless the effect specifically says so, which is usually for rules-related reasons (Isochron Scepter, etc.). The copy created by Dualcaster Mage isn't cast, so that means its Storm ability doesn't trigger. You don't get extra copies.

February 23, 2015 1:49 p.m.

TheRedMage says... #2

No. Because the copy is not cast, but just created on the stack, the Storm ability on it won't trigger.

February 23, 2015 1:50 p.m.

__fense says... #3

Nope, if anything, it's even worse that you're thinking. Storm only cares about how many times spells were cast, and it only happens when the spell with storm is cast. Copying spells (using Dualcaster Mage or Storm) doesn't actually cast the copies, they just put them directly onto the stack.

So in this situation, you start your turn, and cast Dragonstorm. When you cast it, the storm count is 0, so you don't get to make any copies. Then you cast Dualcaster mage. The storm count is then 2, but the copy of Dragonstorm that Dualcaster Mage makes is never actually cast, so the storm ability never triggers at all, so you don't get any additional copies. So Dualcaster Mage enters the battlefield, the Dragonstorm copy resolves and you get a dragon, and ETB things that dragon has go on the stack and resolve, then the original, real Dragonstorm resolves, you get a second dragon, and those ETB things resolve.

Because you don't cast any of those Dragons, the storm count is still 2, you're down 12 mana, and you've gotten 2 tutored dragons and a 2/2 out of the deal. You never actually get to use storm at all, because the one time it triggers, there's a storm count of 0.

Also if you do cast some spells before playing Dragonstorm, lets say 3, you get 4 Dragonstorms (the original and the 3 copies from storm), then one extra one from the Dualcaster. Storm doesn't trigger on any of the copies, so you just ignore that it has storm unless you cast it from your hand or use an effect that specifically says the word 'cast'.

February 23, 2015 2 p.m.

Epochalyptik says... #4

Please try to keep your titles brief. The text formatting for titles is not conducive to readability where titles are longer than two lines.

February 23, 2015 2:31 p.m.

TheRedMage says... #5

The basic philosophy is the same as it is about targeting - just as a spell uses targeting only if it says "target" (unless it's an aura), an object that is not being cast the "normal" way (i.e. from your hand, obeying normal timing restriction, regularly paying its cost, etc) is cast only if the effect that creates it explicitly uses the word "cast". More often though, that happens if the card you are copying had been previously exiled, and you are copying a card. Copies of Spells are usually created on the stack. So for example:

• The activated ability on Isochron Scepter says: ", : you may copy the exiled card. If you do, you may cast the copy without paying its mana cost." This effect creates a copy of a card that was previously exiled. If the imprinted card was Brain Freeze, Storm would trigger.
• Cards with the ability Cypher follow a symilar exile-copy-cast template. So you can encode your Hidden Strings on your Phalanx Leader, and if the creature connects, if you select a creature with a heroic ability as target (all heroic abilities are of the form "when you cast a spell targeting this card...") it will trigger.
• Spells like Fork and abilities like the one on Dualcaster Mage instruct you to copy a Spell, i.e. an object that is currently on the stack. Because the object being copied is already on the stack, the game does not need the player to go through the process of casting the spell because it doesn't need the information that is usually provided by the player upon casting - it can just copy that information from the spell itself.

This can be illustrated easily with split cards, for example. If I have an Isochron Scepter imprinted with Turn / Burn, I get to pick whether I am casting Turn or Burn when I activate the ability, because that's a decision made upon casting. However, if my opponent casts the Turn half and I Dualcaster Mage it, I can't pick - I will always copy Turn, as that choice has already been made.

February 23, 2015 2:35 p.m.