How does this nonsense work? Sun Titan+O-rings Vs. All
Asked by Jokernaught 13 years ago
So I have been hearing this weird business with Oblivion Ring targeting shroud creatures i.e. Inkwell Leviathan out of the graveyard because of Sun Titan. Personally never really played with either Titan or O-ring but I fought against a guy for kicks and took his word for it. He had been to few FNM with this deck and I just trusted his word. But I want proof. How is this possible?
Isn't there some sort of falling off rule for shroud/hexproof creatures?
How Does this nonsense work?
Does it work for auras too?
Arachnarchist says... #2
Oblivion Ring targets once it gets onto the battlefield, so it can't exile a creature like Inkwell Leviathan or any creature with shroud, hexproof, protection etc. Your opponent was wrong.
However, an aura like Pacifism only targets while being cast. When returned to the battlefield by Sun Titan it isn't cast and therefore doesn't target, so it can be placed on any creature.
March 5, 2012 3:04 a.m.
OmegaSerris says... #3
Auras, yes. Oblivion Ring, no.
If Auras are put onto the battlefield (not cast from another zone like your hand), then the controller can attach them to an object of the type referenced on the Aura ("Enchant Creature", for example) of their choice. The word "target" only comes into play when they are cast (you pick it the same time you chose a target for any other spell, the word 'target' just isn't printed on aura cards anymore.
But Oblivion Ring is NOT an Aura. It is an Enchantment with a ETB (enter the battlefield) triggered ability. This ability specifically says TARGET. When that ability is placed on the stack, the controller has to pick a valid target, which shrouded creatures are not. So what the player you are talking about is saying is wrong. He may have just misconstrued the trick I mentioned above with Auras to work with any Enchantment.
As for the "falling off rule" you mentioned. That is with objects that gain protection. For example, a creature enchanted with Arrest will toss it off if Sword of War and Peace is equipped to it. It also effects objects that are no longer of type mentioned on the Aura. Arrest will also fall off an Inkmoth Nexus at the end of turn when it becomes a creature no more.
metalmagic says... Accepted answer #1
O-Ring CANNOT target anything with protection from a quality of O-Ring or shroud/hexproof. Sun Titan
retrieving an aura, or even Venser, the Sojourner
bouncing an aura, like was popular when Scars was first released, can get around Hexproof or Shroud. Nothing will get you around protection unless the creature loses protection.
Here's how it works:
Auras are like instants and sorceries in that they target when they are cast. The funny thing about auras, however, is that they DO NOT target if they are not cast. Hexproof and Shroud do not say that the creature cannot be enchanted, just that it cannot be targeted by spells or abilites. Protection does say that the creature can't be enchanted as well.
When you get an aura back with Sun Titan
or bounce it with Venser, the Sojourner
, you are not casting it, meaning it enters the battlefield enchanting the legal permanent of your choice.
Oblivion Ring
is not an aura, just an enchantment, so this trick does not work with it. Oblivion Ring
will ALWAYS target something (unless all possible targets are removed before it resolves) because when it enters the battlefield, its first ability triggers, you choose a target, and it goes on the stack. That will always happen when O-ring enters the battlefield because its first effect is a triggered ability dependent on it entering the battlefield, where auras only target when on the stack, meaning they must be cast. Auras have no enter the battlefield targeting unless specifically stated in the effect, so that is how auras get around this rule.
March 5, 2012 3:02 a.m.