How does Orvar interact with precursor golem and a removal spell?
Asked by wolfboy 1 year ago
Question: How does the stack work with Precursor Golem and Orvar, the All-Form on the battlefield. My opponent plays Mizzium Skin, targeting precursor golem, and I respond with a removal spell. Will removing the golem before orvar resolves make his ability fizzle?
Orvar, the All-Form's ability uses an intervening if clause, so by removing the target you can keep it from doing anything (though whether this should be referred to as fizzling is a matter of terminology). Since Mizzium Skin is no longer targeting one of their permanents, Orvar's ability will not make a copy. You're good to remove the Precursor Golem before either trigger resolves.
From Orvar, the All-Form's rulings: 2/5/2021: As the first triggered ability tries to resolve, the spell that caused it to trigger and that spell's targets are checked again. Ignore any target of the spell that has left the battlefield by that point. If all of the permanents you controlled that were targets have left the battlefield by that point, the triggered ability will do nothing and no token will be created. If at least one permanent you control that's a target is still on the battlefield, the triggered ability will resolve, even if that permanent is now an illegal target for the spell.
April 30, 2022 12:51 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #3
Good catch on the intervening if clause, I didn't even think about the ramifications of it.
April 30, 2022 9:06 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #4
wolfboy: Answers to your question have been up for a while. Since there don't seem to be any follow-ups or corrections to be made, I marked one of them as the "Accepted answer" so this topic can move out of the list of unanswered questions. In the future you can take care of this yourself using the "Mark as Answer" button on the response you feel best answers your question.
Gidgetimer says... #1
"Fizzle" is magic parlance for "countered by the game rules for having no legal targets". Orvar, the All-Form's ability does not target and as such can not fizzle. Orvar is only going to make one token in this example. Whether your opponent will keep the copy will depend on how they stack their triggers.
If they stack them so that Precursor Golem's trigger on first so the way they will resolve is making the copy and then copying Mizzium Skin onto all of their creatures including the new one, then you can respond after the token is made and kill it. If they stack them so that they get all of the Mizzium Skin copies first tehn you will have to respond to it and the token will survive.
April 29, 2022 9:22 p.m.