Does Scion Retain Hexproof and unblockable with base stats and abilities of a different dragon?
Asked by DragonGodPrince 4 years ago
If I activate Scion of the Ur-Dragon 's ability twice and make him Chromium, the Mutable last and activate Chromium's ability to make him unblockable, hexproof and a 1/1 human. Does he stay a human with no abilities except unblockable and hexproof and ignore the second dragon transformation? Or does Scion of the Ur-Dragon retain unblockable and hexproof but his abilities and base power and toughness change into the second dragon I transform him into?
DragonGodPrince says... #2
Thank you, just asking to make sure. Also another possible outcome was that if scion transforms into the second dragon but only retains the hexproof but not the unblockable ability of chromium.
August 18, 2019 5:13 p.m.
The Scion's copy ability overwrites its own abilities, though, as most copy abilities do. So if you activate the Scion to copy first a Shivan Dragon and then Chromium, the Mutable , then activate Chromium's ability once that copy effect resolves but before the other, the effect copying Shivan Dragon should still replace the Scion's traits with whatever's on Shivan Dragon , not just add to them. Shivan Dragon doesn't have hexproof or unblockable, so the Scion would not retain those from the Chromium ability.
Basing this off the ruling on Scion of the Ur-Dragon where it loses its copy ability when it copies:
- When Scion of the Ur-Dragon becomes a copy of another Dragon, it loses its copy ability for the rest of the turn. (2006-09-25)
It's not copying the other dragons' traits in addition to whatever it has.
August 18, 2019 6:20 p.m.
Also this ruling on Dimir Doppelganger , which seems to cover the same general idea:
- This creature becomes an exact copy of a copied card, except that it also has Dimir Doppelganger’s activated ability. If it becomes a copy of a different creature card, the new copy will overwrite the old copy. (2005-10-01)
The copy ability overwrites previous traits unless otherwise specified, which would include Human Chromium's hexproof and unblockable.
August 18, 2019 6:27 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #5
It will be a 1/1 human with hexproof and no other abilities that can't be blocked this turn. It will have the name, mana cost (and therefore color), and card types/supertypes (i.e. legendary, creature, artifact, etc.) of the second dragon, but that's it.
Figuring out a permanent's characteristics is based on the Layer system, and the layers get applied in a specific order. Relevant to this example: copy effects are in layer 1, type changing effects are in layer 4, ability adding/removing effects are in layer 6, and P/T changing effects are in layer 7. The type changing, ability removing, and P/T setting effects from the resolution of Chromium, the Mutable 's ability will always be applied on top of the copy effect generated by the resolution of Scion of the Ur-Dragon 's ability.
August 18, 2019 7:03 p.m.
DragonGodPrince says... #6
Thats odd, I been told that stacking abilities like for example Moltensteel Dragon before transforming into Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon works. Which led to a similar thing where if I make Scion of the Ur-Dragon turn into Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon and activate his haste ability then transform into a different dragon. The last dragon Scion of the Ur-Dragon turns into will have haste because of Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon 's ability prior.
August 18, 2019 7:09 p.m.
DragonGodPrince says... #7
Oh, so It becomes a 1/1 human with hexproof and unblockable with the second dragon's name, cmc, and types.
August 18, 2019 7:14 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #8
The reason those other interactions work is also because of the layer system. Scion's copy effect applies in layer 1, Skithiryx's ability adding effect applies in layer 6, and Moltensteel Dragon's P/T changing effect applies in layer 7.
August 18, 2019 7:18 p.m.
What about this: Scion of the Ur-Dragon puts 2 triggers on the stack. First one resolves and is transformed into Chromium, the Mutable. Before the second Scion trigger resolves you put a Chromium trigger on the stack. After that resolves, is the Scion a 1/1 copy of the last dragon with unblockable and hexproof or does it have the base stats of the last dragon with unblockable and hexproof? Also, does the outcome result in a human or a dragon... Or both?
September 7, 2019 5:25 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #10
That is exactly the question asked by the OP and correctly answered by Rhadamanthus in response #5. It is a 1/1 human with hexproof and unblockable. All it retains from the second copy to resolve is name, mana cost (and therefore color), and types/supertypes (but not subtypes).
September 7, 2019 10:26 a.m.
Oops, misread the question. I thought the Scion triggers were stacked differently.
Gidgetimer says... #1
You have an unblockable and hexproof copy of whatever dragon you searched out for the scion ability that resolved second.
August 18, 2019 5:08 p.m.