Countering Copied vs. Original Spells
Asked by CardboardSalad 2 years ago
I've had some difficulty finding a solid answer on this: If I cast a spell and then copy that spell, if the original spell is countered, what happens to the copy?
Example: Brainstorm + Reverberate (Copy Brainstorm). If Brainstorm gets countered after the Reverberate, what happens to the copy?
My reason for asking is I want to try using Hive Mind + Alchemist's Gambit + Cursecatcher. Use Hive Mind to give everyone an Alchemist's Gambit, and counter my own copy. Would this work?
CardboardSalad says... #2
Thank you.
So if I'm understanding correctly, because the Reverberate has "target" in the text, it has to have a valid target upon resolving. By countering the original spell it's copying, you effectively counter both (the original and the copy).
However, an ability (activated or triggered) that doesn't specify "target" creates a copy of that spell anyway and puts that copy onto the stack. This copy is it's own instance and doesn't rely on a separate card resolving.
Which has me asking now, would Doublecast get treated the same way? Since it's not targeting a specific card, would the copy not fizzle if the card cast after Doublecast was countered?
February 21, 2022 1:35 p.m.
Doublecast sets up a delayed triggered ability. The next time you cast an instant or sorcery that turn, it will trigger to make a copy, and since the trigger doesn't target, it will also use the last known information of a countered spell to make its copy.
It's less versatile than Reverberate, but plays better into countermagic because your opponent knows you're going to cast another spell, and they won't be able to fully stop what you're doing with a single counterspell no matter how they use it, unless that counterspell is something like Whirlwind Denial.
February 21, 2022 1:45 p.m.
CardboardSalad says... #4
Amazing.
Thank you for the help (and sharing Whirlwind Denial).
Polaris says... Accepted answer #1
When a spell is countered, it's sent from the stack to the graveyard, so it all depends on how the spell was copied and what order the copy and the counter happened in.
Let's start with the simple scenario. You cast Brainstorm and copy it with Reverberate. Then your opponent counters the original. The copy on the stack isn't a card, but it's still a Brainstorm spell with all the same characteristics, and will resolve normally.
If they counter Brainstorm in response to the Reverberate, however, you won't have any spells. Reverberate is a targeted spell, so since the spell it was targeting got countered and left the stack, Reverberate will fizzle for not having a target.
This is different again with Hive Mind or another triggered ability like Riku of Two Reflections. These abilities don't target the spell they're copying, so even if the original spell gets countered they'll be able to make a copy based on that spell's last known characteristics.
All of this brings us to your proposed combo. As you can see, this fits the third scenario. Regardless of when you counter the original, Hive Mind will make everyone else a copy of your extra turn spell, so this combo will work the way you hope.
February 21, 2022 11:51 a.m.