copying a green sun's zenith
Asked by lesthenjay 13 years ago
if my opponent plays Green Sun's Zenith on himself for any amount can i copy that spell using Reverberate for the same amount. the wording on the card has me confused...thanks
It is my understanding that, when a spell is copied, the (X) in the casting cost is not copied, so you would need to pay the (X) on your own. I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, but that is my understanding of the rules.
February 25, 2012 9:45 a.m.
Reverberate will copy the value of X as stated by the rule below:
706.2. When copying an object, the copy acquires the copiable values of the original objects characteristics and, for an object on the stack, choices made when casting or activating it (mode, targets, the value of X, whether it was kicked, how it will affect multiple targets, and so on).
The copiable values are the values derived from the text printed on the object (that text being name,mana cost, color indicator, card type, subtype, supertype, expansion symbol, rules text, power, toughness, and/or loyalty), as modified by other copy effects, by as . . . enters the battlefield and as . . . is turned face up abilities that set characteristics, and by abilities that caused the object to be face down. Other effects (including type-changing and text-changing effects), status, and counters are not copied.
February 25, 2012 9:55 a.m.
Your initial question seems to show some confusion - Green Sun's Zenith and Genesis Wave do not target a player.
Note that when you do copy your opponent's spell, you will search, or reveal from, your own library and not his.
February 25, 2012 12:49 p.m.
BigBruce or anybody else, I have a similar question.
If I pay 4 mana into Green Sun's Zenith , and then Reverberate it, does that mean I can search, tutor up 2 creatures, with a converted mana cost 4 or less into play? Why, or Why not?
Somebody at FNM told me altho I could copy Green Sun, the X value would be copied as zero, and not the 4 mana I paid into it, and that the 4 mana I paid into it, would not be copied, and that therefore I could only search up a creature with a zero casting cost, on the copied Green Sun
February 25, 2012 1:40 p.m.
My mistake, I've not chosen the right rule for this one, but it doesn't matter, because a Reverberate will still copy the value of X. Here's the good rule about this situation:
706.10. To copy a spell or activated ability means to put a copy of it onto the stack; a copy of a spell isnt cast and a copy of an activated ability isnt activated. A copy of a spell or ability copies both the characteristics of the spell or ability and all decisions made for it, including modes, targets, the value of X, and additional or alternative costs. (See rule 601, Casting Spells.) Choices that are normally made on resolution are not copied. If an effect of the copy refers to objects used to pay its costs, it uses the objects used to pay the costs of the original spell or ability.
@mikedh1 Tell that somebody at your FNM that he was incorrect. By the rule I've just copied from Magic Comprehensive Rules, it's clearly stated that the value of X is also copied. So you would have been able to search for 2 green creatures of CMC 4 by copying your Green Sun's Zenith of 4G
February 25, 2012 1:55 p.m.
thanks BigBruce. That means I don't have to take out the chandra's in my deck. The Chandra reverberates the 4 to transform Garruk, all by turns 6,7,8.
So when I see that guy again, or any other person, or judge, says I can't copy Green Sun, in the way I said, I will just tell them to look up, or read rule 706.2 out of the official rulebook, and that they are wrong.
Thanks again BigBruce
February 25, 2012 2:40 p.m.
Hold up I thought that u couldn't target your own planeswalkers I read a question not to long ago bout could u Lightning Bolt a walker and could you thereby Gut Shot garruk they said you couldn't hit your walkers u control
February 25, 2012 3:04 p.m.
Yeah you can't target your own planeswalker, so shift is right, you cannot use ). Only an OPPONENT can redirect damage to a Planeswalker
306.7. If noncombat damage would be dealt to a player by a source controlled by an opponent, that opponent may have that source deal that damage to a planeswalker the first player controls instead. This is a redirection effect (see rule 614.9) and is subject to the normal rules for ordering replacement effects (see rule 616). The opponent chooses whether to redirect the damage as the redirection effect is applied.
February 25, 2012 3:35 p.m.
that doesn't make sense at all. the same rules that make it legal to use a Burn spell to kill off a opponents planewalker, also allow you to burn your own planewalker. If you can't burn your own planeswalker, then you can't burn a opponents planeswalker.
The reason why its legal to use burn to kill off a opponent planeswalker, is that a Planewalkers loyalty counters, are considered to be like as if the planeswalker was another player with a lifepoint total.
That's why a opponents planewalker can be attacked by creatures, as if it was another player, and why can have its loyalty counters lifepoint total attacked by by creatures, and why it can be burned by burn spells.
If those rules apply to a opponents planewalkers, then logical common sense says that those same rules apply to your own planewalkers. Which would mean that you wouldn't be able to attack your own planewalker, with your own creatures, but you could burn your own planeswalker with burn spells, according to logical rules that says you can burn opponents planewalkers.
If there is a rule that says you can't burn your own planewalkers, then as Spock would say, that's illogical, does not compute.
So with that in mind, unless I see a official rule interpretation, that says otherwise, Logic says I am right and that I can burn my own planewalker
February 25, 2012 3:44 p.m.
Guess that's the absolutely absurd,illogical rules then. Leave it to wizards of the coast to be illogical.
You gussed right BigBruce, I either put out 2 Huntmasters, or 1 huntmaster, 1 Mayor, or 1 Daybreak Ranger, 1 mayor, or 1 Day Break, 1 Immerwolf, out at the same time.
February 25, 2012 3:56 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #13
The reason you can't redirect noncombat damage from a source you control to a planeswalker you control is because it's too easily exploitable. Imagine someone playing a 12-point Earthquake and getting to keep all their life because they decide to shunt the damage over to their own hapless Jace Beleren.
Also, planeswalkers are not considered to be players in any way, form, or fashion. Explaining them or thinking about them in that way only causes confusion about how the rules for planeswalkers really work.
lesthenjay says... #1
i completely messed that up. the green spell in question was Genesis Wave
not Green Sun's Zenith 
. so same question just different spell
February 25, 2012 9:30 a.m.