Do we as players give wizards too much flak?
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on April 19, 2022, 6:43 p.m. by Niko9
I wasn't sure where to put this as it's more musing about things than speculation, but either way, here it goes.
Do we give wizards too much grief for power creep? I mean, there is definite power creep, and it only seems to be speeding up, but over the last few weeks I took some time to pick back up some other card games and was like, wow, now this is power creep. At the highest of levels, with optimized decks, magic's power creep is maybe out of control. But to a casual player? I don't know. Serra Angel while not being the most efficient creature by today's standards, she can still pack a punch when she comes out.
Also, there have been recent sets that were actually very under-crept. New Capenna looks like it's going to be a bomb, but AFR, Innistrad, Kami Neon, they seem to have played out, well, pretty good. Not bonkers, but pretty good.
So, maybe it's just that when I think about power creep I think about the bad, and maybe part of it is just how many sets come out now and that kinda pushes creep in your face, but I don't know. I guess I was just thinking today, it could be worse, and you know what, by and large us players may not give the dev teams enough credit when they do a great job.
Tomorrow I will probably go back to being like, uggh fetchlands, but today, today I appreciate that at least at a casual level, they have definitely got some right in recent memory.
Serra Angel.... or Serra the Benevolent?
In my opinion the power level of Magic has had peaks and valleys over the years ive been playing... Super powered sets like mirridion block... then there was the original kamigawa block (admittedly has powerful card in it but the block as a whole...sheesh!)...
But it seems ever since the M15/Magic Origins "reboot of Magic The Gathering" its just been constantly getting more and more powerful.... look at the cards that see play in eternal formats.... Granted Modern now has "Modern Horizons" sets/cards printed straight into the format now... but besides that many of the cards that see competitive play are pretty much pioneer legal cards.
April 19, 2022 10:44 p.m.
Magic has kind of an odd quirk in that their first couple products had ridiculously broken stuff. Most CCGs and expansion-based games start off at their lowest power and complexity and go up from there.
I think Magic has actually been pretty good about power creep. I mean, it's obviously there, but there are a lot of failed games where cards would become eclipsed and unplayable within months. One early Dragon Ball Z game fell apart in like two years because the cards would turn over literally every expansion.
April 19, 2022 11:52 p.m.
See comparing some other games to mtg in terms of power creep doesn't make sense as they don't have a standard rotation. They have one format so yeah they need power creep to keep people buying cards. And mtg does need power creep to a certain extent too but the last few years with sets like throne of eldraine and modern horizons 2 really pushed the throttle on power creep
April 20, 2022 6:02 a.m.
jamochawoke says... #6
For Power Creep? Maybe you're right.
For everything else? Nope. Reload the flak cannons!
April 20, 2022 11:59 a.m.
A lot of flak might be given but it's hard for me to call it unearned since I think memories are still fresh of the War of the Spark to Zendikar Rising stretch where every set was format warping. Card curling issues have gotten better but that just means there's only a chance your foils will become unusably pringled in a week.
But aside from Wizards warping standard with a problematic extra turn spell again I will credit them for the last year of sets feeling a lot saner in terms of their impact on the game. Although I'm not wild about the price of Modern right now and I empathize with people who don't like Ragavan or seeing so many Horizons cards, I think the gameplay of the format's been really good since MH2 came out. Cards from the last year of Standard sets make small impacts on older formats without warping them like Oko and Companions.
April 20, 2022 12:37 p.m.
SpammyV Oh yeah, the card quality is an unforgivable issue. It's better now, but you know, it was better when they printed the Urza's Saga set, so... that's irking. They absolutely knew how to make high quality cards that don't have much of this issue and chose not to. And I have heard that the issue was a new printing facility or something, but seriously, they cheaped out and they did it in a way that everyone noticed. That's flak worthy if ever there was.
And I agree that MH2 has actually added a lot to the meta. I play some modern, not a lot, but it is a fun format. Part of me wonders if the prices on MH2 cards is coming in part because investors are buying up a larger portion of the Modern Horions pie. When MH1 first came out the prices were not too bad, but went way up quickly, then MH2 just started off high, and I may be off, but I wonder if that's because speculators saw how popular MH1 was and bought in hard to MH2. I guess I just wonder with that how much of it is, wizards printed a super powerful monkey and now he's 100 bucks, and how much is, wizards printed a super powerful monkey that tons of people speculated on, and now he's 100 bucks, but at the same time most of the copies printed will never see the light of day. If ragavan was like 10-15 bucks, he'd be seen completely different. I might even play the cutie then : )
April 20, 2022 1:30 p.m.
jamochawoke says... #9
Yeah about MH2: It's not hard to speculate when they tease near-legacy power level cards in the set. People saw that and lost their minds on mtgfinance (I hate them lol).
April 20, 2022 1:39 p.m.
Last_Laugh says... #10
Icbrgr - Yes, Serra Angel once upon a time was a frightening thing to see across the table from you.
April 20, 2022 4:42 p.m.
oh i understood you Last_Laugh i was just being cheeky showing an example of power creep.... for the planswalker can just -3 a Serra Angel token and still have a walker on the board.... for less mana
April 20, 2022 4:49 p.m.
A lot of flak might be given but it's hard for me to call it unearned since I think memories are still fresh of the War of the Spark to
Zendikar Rising stretch where every set was format warping.Card curling issues have gotten better but that just means there's only a chance your foils will become unusably pringled in a week.
But aside from Wizards warping standard with a problematic extra turn spell again I will credit them for the last year of sets feeling a lot saner in terms of their impact on the game.
Although I'm not wild about the price of Modern right now and I empathize with people who don't like Ragavan or seeing so many Horizons cards, I think the gameplay of the format's been really good since MH2 came out.
Cards from the last year of Standard sets make small impacts on older formats without warping them like Oko and Companions.
https://www.steincoindustrial.com/
May 21, 2022 2:06 p.m.
That's true, war of the spark really wasn't that long ago, was it? There have been so many sets since then, but it hasn't been a lot of time. I do remember it too, and it was rough.
But maybe it's just always going to be a roller coaster, and maybe I need to either accept it or not. It just all seems so random sometimes, you know? As a huge Baldur's Gate fan, I am so disappointed in spoilers because they seem to have nothing to do with some of these characters I love. And at the same time, as someone with zero interest in Street Fighter, I can't help but be more hyped about a SF secret lair (of all things) just because of how creative and perfectly flavorful some of them are. Maybe it's just how it is now, but honestly I feel like I'm always teetering between into it and over it.
May 22, 2022 12:12 p.m.
blakeadam Are you a person or a spambot? That's literally word for word another comment, with an irrelevant website at the end.
May 22, 2022 12:58 p.m.
KasminaCompleted says... #15
You should definitely flak Wizards as much as you possibly want and/or can .
They have some investors right now who are very pissed off about some bad deals that Wizards chinsed out on , and lately it seems like every step they make towards inclusion has some secret poisonous barb buried just below the surface .
A user on mtgsalvation.com recently did a Number Crunch and looked at MtG by the numbers . The number of cards printed in 2020 , 2021 , and 2022 has been higher than it has ever been , making it more difficult for new players to keep track of , and the number of words on each card has risen dramatically , making it harder for new players to understand .
Oh , and Foil Pringling happens to other collectors too? Ka i don·t even keep my foils , most of them are unplayably bent within a week .
It seems as if Wizards is desperately reaching for something , sed what? Ka
June 6, 2022 9:40 a.m.
KasminaCompleted Do you have any further information on these "bad deals," or the "secret poisonous barbs," or why "it seems as if Wizards is desperately reaching for something?"
I'm not doubting you, but it sounds like you think WotC is acting in bad faith beyond the usual corporate signs of greed and hypocrisy. I'd like to get further information about what you think is happening.
June 6, 2022 12:55 p.m.
KasminaCompleted "every step they make towards inclusion has some secret poisonous barb buried just below the surface" What poisonous barbs? It kind of just sounds like you are unhappy that they're trying to be more diverse/inclusive?
Last_Laugh says... #2
Power creep is inevitable... Serra Angel used to be a premium finisher once upon a time. It's when it's blatant and no longer a slow creep that it becomes a problem (yes, I'm looking at you Dockside Extortionist!)
April 19, 2022 8:15 p.m.