Question about nullify, negate, cancel, etc

General forum

Posted on Sept. 25, 2015, 6:10 a.m. by DarkenedEmbers

So my friend and I who are both fairly new to mtg were playing a few games last night and during one of them, my friend used nullify and negate to counter some of my cards, but I'm unsure as to whether the cards can be used the way he used them.

Basically I had a bubbling cauldron, a festering newt and a festering newt equipped with a gift of immortality. I used bubbling cauldrons ability and sacrificed my newt that had gift of immortality, my friend then played nullify when gift of immortality was activating its ability, my friend said that even though gift of immortality was already in play, it's ability was being activated therefore nullify could counter it. Being unsure I agreed. Then a turn or two later when I activated bubbling cauldron my friend activated negate using the same reasoning again, that is bubbling cauldron was being activated so negate could counter it and destroy it. Being new I'm unsure if nullify and negate can be used in this way so I was hoping someone could clarify this up for me.

Thanks in advance!

Coinman1863 says... #2

Short answer is no because the the Gift trigger is activated not cast, you can only counter cast stuff with Nullify and Negate.

Long answer is:

• It doesn't work because those spells counter stuff as you play them. So you can use Nullify to counter a creature or aura spell as you cast it, not as you use its abilities. To counter abilities you need something like Stifle where all the card does is it makes the (in your instance) Gift do nothing when it goes into the grave. It doesn't destroy it.

Hope this helps.

September 25, 2015 6:30 a.m.

pleasiodmakerblooloo says... #3

Your friend is wrong both times as they are the same mistake. Both Nullify and Negate can only counter (destroy) spells that are being cast. This means when you tap mana for them and put them in play. With the first case, while the Festering Newt is entering the battlefield, it wasn't cast and so cannot be countered. The second case he is wrong as you are not casting the spell. Think of it as "once you have paid mana for it and it is on the battlefield it cannot be countered". You just activated the Bubbling Cauldron's ability NOT CAST it so I cannot be 'destroyed' with the counter spell.

September 25, 2015 6:35 a.m.

EddCrawley says... #4

The key difference is spell vs ability, these spells counter specific spells, not abilities.

A card cast from the hand or graveyard (via flashback) is a spell, and so can be countered with the appropriate counter spell. but if a card has an activated ability (displayed as cost:effect) this may not be countered as a spell. There are spells that can counter abilities, eg Stifle, but they are much rarer.

September 25, 2015 7:02 a.m.

ChiefBell says... #5

DarkenedEmbers - Notice the difference in wording between Cancel and Voidslime. Spells are cards that are being cast. When you activate an ability you do not cast it. Hence why Voidslime exists.

September 25, 2015 7:09 a.m.

NoPantsParade says... #6

Your friend is wrong.

September 25, 2015 8:58 a.m.

Epochalyptik says... #7

First, rules questions belong in the Q&A, as stated by the warnings banner above every new thread field. The moving system is currently bugged, so I won't move this right now.

Second, link the cards in your question. When you're asking for help, you should make it easy for people to help you.
Festering Newt
Bubbling Cauldron
Gift of Immortality
Nullify
Negate
Cancel

"Activate" is used only in reference to activated abilities. Gift of Immortality does not have any activated abilities. Activation is also not an automatic process; it's manual. The player activates the ability.

Rather, Gift of Immortality has a triggered ability. Triggered abilities trigger automatically when their trigger conditions are met.

Spells are never activated or triggered. Spells are cast. A spell can be any card or copy of a card on the stack. Spells exist only on the stack. Once a card reaches the battlefield, it's a permanent.

Nullify and Negate target spells. They can't target abilities or permanents. Your friend cannot target Gift of Immortality's ability or Bubbling Cauldron's ability with something that only targets spells.

September 25, 2015 9:11 a.m.

Epochalyptik says... #8

@pleasiodmakerblooloo: Spells cannot be destroyed. The countering process does not involve destruction.

September 25, 2015 9:12 a.m.

Goody says... #9

As a way to clarify the specific case of Gift of Immortality, even though that enchantment is being returned to the battlefield from the graveyard as part of its triggered ability, it is not being cast. The card Gift of Immortality goes to the graveyard when the enchanted creature dies. At the beginning of the next end step, its triggered ability goes on the stack, not the card itself. If that triggered ability resolves, then the card is returned to the field as a permanent already attached to that creature . It can't be countered because it is not being cast.

If the card instead said "you may cast this card from your graveyard" (like Gravecrawler), then it could be countered.

September 25, 2015 1:14 p.m. Edited.

Goody says... #10

However, the triggered ability could be countered by something like Voidslime, which would mean Gift of Immortality would stay in the graveyard.

September 25, 2015 1:20 p.m.

DarkenedEmbers says... #11

Thanks for all the answers guys.

@ Epochalyptik sorry for posting in the wrong thread, didn't notice the header, my fault.

September 25, 2015 1:41 p.m.