Copying Creature Question
General forum
Posted on Oct. 17, 2012, 7:27 a.m. by MonkeyMind
Hi there,
how does it work if I copy something with counters like Primordial Hydra . Let's say I copy it with Cackling Counterpart , Phantasmal Image or Clone for example?
Cheers!
All of the cards you linked use the state of the card on the battlefield or a creature you control, not the creature card. Therefore it enters in the exact same state of when you cast it. So if the Hydra is a 5/5, your clone will also be a 5/5.
October 17, 2012 8:03 a.m.
MonkeyMind says... #4
Thanks for the answer dudes, but they're contradicting so I still don't know now...
October 17, 2012 8:23 a.m.
This would only be true if it did not use counters. Counters are not copied when a copy of a creature is made. As such, the copy of a Primordial Hydra would come into play with 0 +1/+1 counters, and if nothing else is boosting the copy's toughness, it will die as a state based effect.
The copy also copies the "...enters the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters on it." Since X is 0, it will not gain any counters.
For the copy to have any power and toughness when entering the battlefield, the original would have to say something like"...enters the battlefield with a power and toughness each equal to (an actual number)." - If it is X rather than a set number then the copy remains a 0/0, as a X cannot be paid for the copy.
October 17, 2012 8:28 a.m.
wreckedd you are wrong in that sense as any clone effect will copy any legal target as if the card is unmodified, for instance it's possible to Phantasmal Image an animated Inkmoth Nexus but instead of being an already animated copy it's just a land, as such a clone of a Primordial Hydra would enter the battlefield with 0 +1/+1 counters because it's X is by default 0 and in most cases it will immediately die from having no toughness.
October 17, 2012 8:29 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #7
A copy effect copies everything written on the original, plus the results of any other copy effects the original is currently subject to, and nothing else. As your copy of Primordial Hydra enters the battlefield, it will see that no value was chosen for X when it was cast, so it will enter with 0 +1/+1 counters.
FYI, the MTG Q&A section of the site is the best place to go to get answers to all your rules-related questions.
October 17, 2012 9:30 a.m.
MonkeyMind says... #8
Thanks for the clarification dudes :)! Very much appreciated (even though it was not the answer I hoped for ;)...). I'll have a look in the MTG Q&A section from now on Rhadamanthus.
Thanks again, Rick
October 17, 2012 9:44 a.m.
Weston Ayarza says... #9
Can clones enter the battle field as say Geist of Saint Traft ? How does hexproof go with that
October 17, 2012 12:54 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #10
An effect doesn't target unless it specifically uses the word "target", either in the text printed on the card or the rules text for a keyword ability (equip, enchant [thing], etc.). "Clones" that operate in the manner of Clone , Phyrexian Metamorph , etc. don't target.
In your example of Geist of Saint Traft , this interaction is very important, as being able to copy him with an untargeted effect makes it possible to kill him with the Legend Rule.
October 17, 2012 12:59 p.m.
rckclimber777 says... #11
Rhad is right. That is why Phantasmal Image 's rule text might as well have said: Target player sacrifices Geist of Saint Traft
October 17, 2012 1:06 p.m.
cartwheelnurd says... #13
Yeah there are decks that run 4 of jace beleren as anit mindsculptors. SOme decks used to play 4 of umezoa's jitte even if they had no creatures to get rid of other jittes.
tommyjohn05 says... #2
if you copy primordial hydra it will become a 0/0 and die. it is an exact copy of the card text, power, toughness etc... unless stated otherwise. therefore if you copy primordial hydra it will be sent to the graveyard.
October 17, 2012 7:41 a.m.