SynergyBuild

I dont think anyone has fully explored Ishai or many of thr other partners outside of thras tymna vial but I did spend some time pre hulk exploring a Ishai Reyhan synergies with Food Chain combos and post-hulk exploring Ishai Thras. Although these lists arent optimized or updated, they convinced me of viability. I wasnt necessarily advocating for Ishai at any particular level, but it is a partner effect in decent colors that applies a clock.

Ishai Reyhan

Ishai Thras

ChibiNature oh I'm sorry I didn't mean to disregard your comment! No, you don't have to make a submission on the decklist database, that's more or less used for cEDH decks and fringe decks as well. You can just start a discussion here by stating who you think should be moved up, why you think they should be moved up, and a decklist would be appreciated if you could link that as well.

Also tw0handt0uch, with all do respect, I don't think Ishai warrants a slot in competitive for having synergies with Reyhan in a Food Chain list. I understand that you weren't advocating for a placement, but tier 2 seems a little high to me. Especially since Reyhan is in tier 3 as well, and Ishai isn't directly involved in any of the combos you listed. It appears to me as if Ishai is more of a backup or compliment to your game plan in the deck. Would a drop to tier 3 be fair? It's still a really cool deck and I like the synergies the commanders have with one another, but it doesn't strike me as tier 2 material when compared to the rest listed as competitive. It has lots of potential though.

I have to agree with DiverDown here, tw0handt0uch, as even if with Reyhan there were some great combos, Reyhan isn't in Tier 2, nor is the deck you listed. Ishai is listed as a standalone commander, not in the partner pairings.

I ask what deck without a partner makes Ishai equivalent to the other tier 2 decks? That was really my question, apologies if I didn't make that clear before.

I do like that food chain deck tho, but it isn't what I would call tier 2 xD

IMO ishai + reyhan is pretty good... Beatstick+utility + best protection spells on a self-growing commander can end games in short order... except if going Voltron route with ishai it has that whole effective against 1 player at a time caveat.

The Aggro Problem in a nutshell.

See, this is why you just need to play infect. For my money, either they should just add a rule simply stating that poison counters do not exist in commmander, or raise the limit to 15 or 25, but so long as it’s 10, I’d say it’s a viable strategy in commander, even if it does still have problems (and certainly isn’t tier 1).

Infect doesn't solve the aggro problem xD It may help in some scenarios, but often it doesn't help enough.

NoOneOfConsequence I don't see infect much but the only way I've seen it knock out more than one player is by alpha striking everyone... It seems like it should be good but I often see Voltron work better. I'm talking casual games btw.

Great update all around. I had stopped coming to this page because the comment quality had gotten so bad. Glad to see that being addressed.

Hypothetical question while you're on the subject of agroo: If Saskia the Unyielding 's two unique abilities were changed to "Whenever a creature you control deals combat damage to an opponent, it deals that much damage to each other opponent.", would that be enough to bump her up to Competetive in your opinion?

(Bonus alternative: "Whenever a creature you control deals combat damage to an opponent, Saskia the Unyielding deals that much damage to each other opponent." so that you can easily combo with e.g. Tainted Strike .)

As a solo commander obviously Ishai would be weak. I hear what you all are saying - again I didnt’t advocate for Ishai in Tier 2 and wouldn’t really care if she was lower. At the same time I have built decks with Ishai that I would be absolutely comfortable piloting and winning at a high clip in a meta of tier 2 decks. At the time I was playing those two decks listed, I was keeping detailed stats on games played so I know exactly how they perform. I think the challenge is just an artifact of evaluating partners that have open ended synergies depending on other partners. I will talk to the other tier list owners and get their thoughts though. Remember, there’s always going to be shades of grey and tier lists aren’t really the best tool anyways. Dont take any particular rank and set in stone - there’s nothing wrong with considering Ishai Tier 3 if it helps you understand the list better.

Idk if it would be good enough to be competitive but I would be a lot more interested in her. As she is, I kinda wonder if she should be lower.

Her dealing the damage might have competitive potential. But i really don't know. Even with a tainted strike it still seems a relatively slow combo with a fair ammount of pieces. If you could find a way to do it quickly and efficiently then perhaps? Im not very familiar with the strategy.

In general though, I think that ability would have been a great service for aggro as an edh archetype.

Just my thoughts, don't take em too seriously.

DiverDown Ok cool, I'll tweak up the primer of the decklist then and post it later :)

Ok here is the list MAGA (Make Aggro Great Again)

I feel that Aurelia is just as good as Godo in the high tier spot. I've run both decks fairly often and found that While Godo usually wins faster, Aurelia usually stops the enemy just enough to win just as much.

It probably wont ever be top tier, but it would have no trouble stomping any mid power deck. And have a very high winrate against high tier. Also I feel it fits the definition B of high power perfectly

"B. Fully tuned decks whose strategy isn't quite powerful enough for cEDH - not every fully tuned deck can be competitive, no matter how much time you put into it. A powerful strategy is one of the facets that make decks competitive."

ChibiNature I will agree with you that Aurelia is comparable with Godo, but the big difference to me where Aurelia falls short in is that Godo tutors on ETB and may win on the spot if there's no interaction. Aurelia relies on outside pieces to find Helm, and as a result, has to implement a more diverse toolbox and run more combos within the deck to become more modular. Godo is more compact in this regard, but I'm not necessarily throwing your advocacy for Aurelia out the window.

I'm not entirely sure where I stand, because Godo feels inherently better in my opinion, but it is incredibly predictable and it doesn't involve much interaction to interrupt the combo. However, I am an advocate that any well-tuned deck can fit the context of tier 3 at the very least. I need to hear more thoughts on this, but I will say that I am in favor of this motion.

Yeah I agree completely. Godo is much better than Aurelia by themselves due to how he is a combo rolled into one creature. I just found myself getting interrupted more times than not since everyone knew exactly what was about to happen on my field at all times lol. So they ended up balancing out eachother in terms of winrate for me.

So, I fully admit I might be missing something here, but... How can Circu, Dimir Lobotomist be considered a Competitive commander if you can't find any decks that would fit for him?

Serefin99: Circu acts as a win condition with Dramatic Reversal + Isochron Scepter to exile your opponents' libraries.

More specifically, Circu exiles libraries, while not needing to be mana positive with Dramatic Scepter, just mana neutral.

Circu is also better than just exiling all opponents libraries, if you exile a Flash in one deck, a Flash in another player's hand is unable to be cast, meaning the combo often locks out instant-speed interaction that may be able to save an opponent from drawing from an empty library, as long as any other opponent has the card in their deck. Not always super useful, but a rather nice upside in some circumstances.

Just back on Aurelia for a second, I'm going to throw my hat in the ring with this:

Bed Hair: cEDH Edition

Commander / EDH* enpc

SCORE: 4 | 6 COMMENTS | 403 VIEWS | IN 3 FOLDERS

I've been tinkering with Aurelia lists for a little bit and came up with this. May not change anybody's thoughts, but figured it could be a good reference in addition to ChibiNature's list.

Also, derailing the Aurelia conversation for a second, I would be keen to get some thoughts on this:

Just Stay Dead: cEDH Edition

Commander / EDH* enpc

SCORE: 10 | 25 COMMENTS | 2112 VIEWS | IN 2 FOLDERS

Working on some new lines in it and would be keen to get some feedback about any improvements that people could spot.

ChibiNature I'm not sure what your Godo list looks like, but your Aurelia list isn't running more interaction or stax than a standard Godo list would. It looks heavier on good stuff (Iroas, God of Victory, Master Warcraft) than impactful stax pieces that stop top tier decks from winning (Trinisphere, Rest In Peace, etc.)

There seems to be some confusion about Godo - it's literally one of the fastest decks in EDH. It's comparable to Flash-Hulk and all-in Ad Naus decks in terms of speed. Players on the godo-cedh discord regularly encounter opponents mulliganing for interaction that stops Godo, because it's the fastest deck at the table and will win if left unchecked. The debate on Godo's tier placement is on how resilient it is, given how easy it is to find interaction that stops the combo. I've already voiced my opinion on it being more resilient than Mono-black Sidisi.

Aurelia is similar Godo only in that both commanders combo with Helm of the Host. Otherwise they are very different decks.

Yeah, Godo is a fast combo deck, Aurelia is stax-combo hybrid. I'd argue for Godo over Aurelia a bit, but I love Aurelia so it hurts to say. I have built both online, and Godo is so straightforward it isn't fun, but when Aurelia hits the reactions are just great.

Hissp Iroas is being removed for playtesting other cards atm (Bloodmoon/Magus, Rest in Peace, and Lion's Eye Diamond, if you're curious), and I'm still reluctant to part with Master Warcraft since it's helped far more than it has hindered.

My godo list is just the top deck that was posted on this tier list back when it was in the old style, so I figured it was good.

And you might be correct, comparing the two might not accomplish anything since they play differently due to the color difference. I just thought it'd be the easiest way to show that Aurelia deserved a spot if I compared it to a deck with a similar win condition.