Blood artist trigered ability-the stack-and the rules
Asked by omgroflme 11 years ago
First scenario: My opponent has on his side 5 tokens and a Blood Artist . He chooses to cast day of judgement and passes me priority. If i cast Vapor Snag on Blood Artist , do i loose life?
Second scenario: My opponent has a falkenwrath aristocrat, a Blood Artist
and a token on his side. He chooses to sac the token with the aristocrat and passes me priority.. If i cast Vapor Snag
on Blood Artist
do i loose life? If i do, how can i don't loose life?I know of this : 603.2e If a triggered ability's trigger condition is met, but the object with that triggered ability is at no time visible to all players, the ability does not trigger. But i can't find the rule about the triggered ability effect and the stack.
Arachnarchist says... #2
In the first scenario you would not lose life, because vapor snag would resolve before the Day of Judgment and so the Blood Artist will not be on the field when DoJ resolves and kills everything else. In the second scenario, you would lose a life because immediately after sacrificing the creature the Blood Artist s triggered ability will go on the stack, Since an ability on the stack is independent of it's source, blood artist does not have to be on the field for the ability to resolve.
August 24, 2012 7:07 a.m.
First scenario: No. Vapor Snag goes on the stack after Day of Judgment , so triggers first. Blood Artist returns to its owner's hand, then all the tokens die.
August 24, 2012 7:07 a.m.
First scenario - No. Vapor Snag will resolve first and the Blood Artist will return to the owners hand. Then Day of Judgment will resolve, and as the Blood Artist is no longer in play, there won't be any loss of life for you, or life gain for the opponent.
Second Scenario - If your opponent has priority and has the Blood Artist in play with Vampire Aristocrat and any other creature/token. The Sacrifice ability of the Vampire Aristocrat is a COST which needs to be paid in order to activate it's ability. Once the player pays a cost and if anything causes a trigger, then the trigger goes onto the stack pretty much immediately.
So whilst your rule 603.2e is correct, the problem is that your opponent's cost of an effect is what triggers Blood Artist ability to go onto the stack, allowing him to make you lose life regardless of what you try to do. The best way to stop this from happening is to make sure you kill Blood Artist BEFORE a sacrifice outlet (like Vampire Aristocrat ) enters the battlefield.
This is why Black/Red Zombies are quite strong, and will possibly be come rotation.
August 24, 2012 7:14 a.m.
So the effect of a trigered ability remains on stack even if the trigered ability source isnt around anymore?
August 24, 2012 7:29 a.m.
If it already triggered, then yes. That's why you respond to the Day of Judgment with the Vapor Snag , at that point, the Blood Artist will already be in his hand when the boardwipe goes off.
August 24, 2012 7:39 a.m.
Basically, Blood Artist just has to be on the board when it or other creatures die. Otherwise, it's simply not there to be triggered.
fireteam says... Accepted answer #1
first scenario: No, you don't lose life. He loses one life due to Vapor Snag , and then both of your life totals do not change. You would have to cast the Vapor Snag in response to him playing Day of Judgment , not the Blood Artist trigger.
a) because Blood Artist would already be in the opponents graveyard
b) because Blood Artist already triggered 6 times for all of his creatures (plus how many for all of yours). Abilities can exist outside of their sources, so even if you somehow exiled Blood Artist from the graveyard at instant speed, you would still lose 6 life, and he would gain 6.
second: No, with Falkenrath Aristocrat , sacrificing is the cost. You cannot respond to it, and the creature goes in the graveyard, and Blood Artist triggers before you can respond to any of it.
The reason why is because sacrificing is a cost. You cannot respond to costs, as that is what puts the activated ability on the stack. You cannot even do anything until the creature is put into the graveyard, and Blood Artist triggers.
If you Vapor Snag the Blood Artist , then you are effectively doing nothing, as again, abilities can exist outside of their sources. Therefore, you will still lose one, and he will gain one, and his Falkenrath Aristocrat is indestructible until end of turn, and he will have a Blood Artist in hand.
My solution: Witchbane Orb . It turns off their Bonfire of the Damned , card:Geralf's Messenger, and Blood Artist .
August 24, 2012 7:07 a.m.