As Fortold (new card, no link) and Commander Tax
Asked by Daedalus19876 7 years ago
Does this allow you to ignore commander tax (assuming you have a number of counters equal to your commander's CMC)?
I believe not, but it's worth asking.
Daedalus19876 says... #2
Neotrup: And this card does not work with Ancestral Vision, correct?
April 5, 2017 6:24 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #3
To clarify, when you calculate the costs for a spell, you use this formula:
[total cost] = [mana cost OR alternate cost] + [additional costs AND cost increases] - [cost reductions]
The mana cost is the value in the upper right corner of a card. For example, the mana cost of Damia, Sage of Stone is . When an effect allows you to pay instead of a spell's mana cost, it's creating an alternate cost that you can use instead of the aforementioned values. So you could cast Damia, Sage of Stone for instead of for .
In Commander, the commander tax is an additional cost. Effects that allow you to pay an alternate cost don't affect additional costs. You can replace the cost to cast Damia, Sage of Stone, but the commander tax will still apply. You can reduce it with effects like that of Heartless Summoning, which create a casting discount or cost reduction effect that applies to the overall cost of the spell.
April 5, 2017 6:27 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #4
Actually, As Foretold does work with Ancestral Vision.
202.3a The converted mana cost of an object with no mana cost is 0, unless that object is the back face of a double-faced permanent or is a melded permanent.
While Ancestral Vision doesn't have a mana cost (because it doesn't have anything printed in its upper right corner), it does have a converted mana cost (which is 0).
Because As Foretold's effect considers the converted mana cost of a would-be spell, and it creates an alternate cost that you can pay for cards that meet the criteria (i.e., cards with CMC X or less).
The fact that Ancestral Vision doesn't have a mana cost doesn't prevent it from being cast for an alternate cost.
April 5, 2017 6:35 p.m.
Daedalus19876 says... #5
Epochalyptik: The fact that it specifies "a spell you cast" doesn't change that? You can use it even for normally-uncastable spells?
...Well. That's a new Modern archetype right there then.
April 5, 2017 6:45 p.m. Edited.
I believe "spell you could cast" refers to timing restrictions (so not casting a sorcery on an opponents turn) and it being in a zone where casting it is allowed, such as your hand for most cards, your command zone for your commander, your graveyard for fortold cards, or your library for Panglacial Wurm. Ancestral Vision already has a "anytime you could cast it" clause for suspending it, so unpayable mana costs shouldn't hamper As Foretold.
April 5, 2017 9:42 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #7
There is no other way to word it. People trip themselves up all the time by over thinking things. Ancestral Vision is only normally uncastable because it doesn't have a mana cost, so when it comes time to pay the cost of the spell you can't and casting fails. As foretold changes it so that you can pay instead of the non-existent mana cost. As such when it comes time to pay for teh spell you pay and the cast is successful.
Neotrup says... #1
No, commander tax is an additional cost, so what it does allow you to do is pay rather than the cost, and then apply the commander tax to that . It still ends up giving you a decent discount, and makes it so you don't need colored mana.
April 5, 2017 6:21 p.m.