The Raven Man
Lore forum
Posted on Aug. 24, 2017, 2:16 p.m. by NicoFreakinBolas
I was wondering who the raven man is if it is known, also if anyone has a theory on what he is.
SSJ_Weegee says... #4
Artwork of him, maybe clothing can help?
http://media.wizards.com/2016/images/daily/storyart_ORI_Raven-Man.jpg
The only characters ever known to see and hear the Raven Man are Liliana and Jace (while mentally attacking Liliana), so it's entirely possible that he is a figment of her imagination or an expression of a mental disorder.
August 24, 2017 3:43 p.m.
I do not know the answer either but I think SSJ_Weegee has an interesting idea/theory.... My theory would be more so in line with it being a manifestation of demon/demons she made her pact with maybe?
August 24, 2017 3:54 p.m.
We have no indication of who he really is or his motives. He claims to have been acquainted with Liliana's father, who was a general, and we know he exists enough that Jace can see him when looking at Liliana's mind hard enough, but beyond that, we have nothing. All that is clear is that he's very intent on helping Liliana cultivate her powers, even before the Mending took most of them.
August 24, 2017 4:31 p.m.
My theory is he is Yawgmoth, or at least a fragment of him
August 24, 2017 5:07 p.m.
I mean the raven man does bear a striking resemblance to urza.
Not saying he's urza of course; if he were another walker he'd be visible -or at least detectable- to more people than just liliana. He's also not undead, or nissa would have detected his presence.
From the origin story we know the raven man has plagued liliana since before she made her pact with the demons, before the chain veil, and before her spark ignited.
He could be some sort of spectral guardian resulting from a pact made between liliana's father and some dark force, something along the lines of "my soul if you protect her life, no matter the cost." (The result being that the raven man shapes liliana's future into whichever one keeps her alive longest).
He could be a being created by bolas to guard and develop those walkers that he has detected and wishes to bend to his will (note how the raven man ALWAYS agrees with bolas).
It's also entirely possible that her father was a powerful mage, and that he cast some sort of spell on her as a child that would create a "raven man" in the event of his death. Of all options I find this least likely because liliana does not recognize the raven man when she first meets him.
Those are my theories, but we have pitifully little information about the origins of the raven man.
August 24, 2017 6:23 p.m.
Bolas is likely not behind the Raven Man. As you said, he has been "aiding" Liliana since before her spark ignited, and she's a pre-Mending 'walker. Bolas has only been doing massive multiverse-spanning schemes post-Mending, as a means of regaining his omnipotence. He did do things prior, of course, but generally it was simple conquering/ruling over pieces of the multiverse, not unfolding massive plots as he has been.
He could be some kind of deal stricken by General Vess, but given that the Raven Man makes it fairly obvious that Liliana's welfare is not his concern, merely a parallel path of his true goals, I think mistake would be a better classification than deal. Inheriting her father's debts, so to speak, rather than being the object of his affections.
August 24, 2017 6:32 p.m.
The Raven Man, though, tricked Liliana into killing her brother as opposed to healing him. We should take that into consideration
August 24, 2017 7:13 p.m.
I like the "inherited debt" angle. It would explain why the raven man is so calloused, even if it doesn't explain where he came from nor what he is.
As for killing Josu, that action and its consequences are singularly responsible for lili's spark igniting.
The raven man only seems to care about her physical survival, not her mental state nor her desires. My guess is that unless he can find some way to unbind himself from liliana, their fates are intertwined.
August 24, 2017 8:43 p.m.
NicoFreakinBolas says... #12
DuTogiraYou said if he was a planeswalker he would be detectable. What if he was a blue planeswalker(since they can go invisible)and so he makes himself only visible to her. And that's why Jace is the only other one to see him(because he's blue and he can do shenanigans)
August 25, 2017 5:16 p.m.
I mean at that point why not take it a step further and say the raven man is ashiok?
August 25, 2017 8:12 p.m.
Ashiok seems like a somewhat new Planeswalker to me. Ashiok only recently began performing large-scale experiments of the scope of Ashiok's powers, and has had not only promising results on Theros, but has bargained for invisibility from the eyes of the pantheon there. Ashiok seems pretty content on Theros for now, and due to only now becoming so confident, likely hasn't been a Planeswalker for long enough to have been bothering Lili for hundreds of years. Additionally, the Raven Man's goals, concealed though they may be, do not appear to align with Ashiok's.
August 26, 2017 12:11 a.m.
The Raven Man is definitely real, because he physically gave lili the potion that turned her brother into a zombie (if I remember correctly). The theory that was brought up earlier is interesting but not completely correct.
He talks to lili and knows what she's doing at all times, regardless of plane, suggesting that he is a planeswalker. Further proof of this appears in a SOI/EMN story (I forgot which one), where he appeared to lili on Inistrad, then eventually disappeared, as he was first on Dominaria, lili's home plane. Ultimately, I think that he is like a distant father figure to lili, guiding her to the safest, while maybe not apparent or appealing, path.
Alternatively, going off of the imagination theory, it could be the memory of the actual raven man is tormenting lili by doubting her actions and suggesting a path she subconsciously knows is right. This might be more likely, because he has stayed with lili since she ignited, which we know was a long time ago (pre-Mending)
September 9, 2017 10:59 p.m.
An extremely in-depth article just came out on this.
TL;DR: Lim-Dul the Necromancer is the most likely candidate.
Epochalyptik says... #2
Bran Stark
Oh wait...
August 24, 2017 2:30 p.m.