Vorinclex, Voice of hunger
Asked by Wbg1415 3 years ago
My opponent already tapped on his turn. I play vorinclex, voice of hunger. His ability states "whenever an opponent taps a land for mana, that land doesn't uptap during it's controllers next untapped step. He states that since it was tapped before vorinclex was cast that his mana is still untapptable? I say no it isn't, who is correct?
In the future, please use the rules Q&A section of the site if you have questions about rules, cards, or card interactions. That section has some added functionalities, including the ability to “mark as answer” a post to indicate your question has been resolved.
I have gone ahead and moved the post for you.
It also helps if you link cards with double brackets, as so:
[[Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger]]
Also, as a note, you initially posted this in the Standard section - in case there is any confusion, Vorinclex is not Standard-legal.
December 8, 2020 12:31 a.m.
Tyrant-Thanatos says... #3
Chandra585 is correct, but to clarify:
A triggered ability like the one on Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger can only trigger while the card is on the battlefield and the triggering condition occurs. So in order for Vorinclex to affect a land, it has to be on the battlefield when the land is tapped, and the land has to be tapped for mana. If a land was tapped while Vorinclex was not on the battlefield, or a land is tapped for a reason other than to produce mana, it will be unaffected.
Relevant Rules:
603.1. Triggered abilities have a trigger condition and an effect. They are written as “[When/Whenever/At] [trigger condition or event], [effect]. [Instructions (if any).]”
603.2. Whenever a game event or game state matches a triggered ability’s trigger event, that ability automatically triggers. The ability doesn’t do anything at this point.
603.2f If a triggered ability’s trigger condition is met, but the object with that triggered ability is at no time visible to all players, the ability does not trigger.
603.3. Once an ability has triggered, its controller puts it on the stack as an object that’s not a card the next time a player would receive priority. See rule 117, “Timing and Priority.” The ability becomes the topmost object on the stack. It has the text of the ability that created it, and no other characteristics. It remains on the stack until it’s countered, it resolves, a rule causes it to be removed from the stack, or an effect moves it elsewhere.
December 8, 2020 2:09 a.m.
The previous posters have mostly answered your question, but to provide some perspective, I just wanted to mention the different types of abilities and how they would change the way Vorinclex works.
The three main kinds of abilities are activated, triggered, and static.
Activated abilities have a cost and can (usually) be activated whenever you could play an instant as long as you can pay the cost. Vorinclex's ability would look something like this:
- : Tapped lands your opponents control don't untap during their controller's next untap step.
This version of the ability would be limited by summoning sickness, but you'd be able to essentially prevent almost any land from untapping once it was tapped (at the cost of not being able to attack unless you gave Vorinclex vigilance). It would only affect lands that were already tapped when Vorinclex's ability resolved.
Triggered abilities activate whenever the trigger event occurs. You can identify them if the ability starts with "when," "whenever," "at the beginning," etc. This is the ability Vorinclex has:
- Whenever an opponent taps a land for mana, that land doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step.
This version of the ability puts an invididual lockdown on each land when an opponent taps it. Vorinclex has to be in play when the land is tapped for the triggered ability to lock it down.
Static abilities have a constant effect that applies as long as the card is in the correct zone (usually the battlefield, but not always—for example, the Escape mechanic is a static ability that makes it legal to cast the card from your graveyard for its escape cost). This version of the ability would look something like the following:
- Lands your opponents control don't untap if they were untapped during their controller's last untap step.
This version is obviously pretty hard to understand, and a simpler version ("Lands your opponents control don't untap during their controller's untap step") would be completely broken. However, a static ability would work on lands that were tapped before Vorinclex entered the battlefield.
I hope this helps you parse different abilities in the future!
December 9, 2020 11:04 p.m.
Monomanamaniac says... #5
You're thinking of Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger like Winter Orb. Vorinclex uses an activated ability and an effect like winter orb uses a static ability. Note the inclusion or exclusion of a trigger word. Polaris winter orb and Stasis are definitely more broken than vorinclex
December 13, 2020 3:58 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #6
Wbg1415: Answers to your question have been up for a while. Since there don't seem to be any follow-ups or corrections to be made, I chose one to mark as the "Accepted answer" so this topic can move out of the list of unanswered questions. In the future you can take care of this yourself using the green "Mark as Answer" button on the response that you feel best answers your question.
Chandra585 says... Accepted answer #1
His land is still untappable. The relevant ability here is a triggered one, which we can see because of the word "whenever". The ability can only trigger after Vorinclex is on the battlefield. You can think of it as a sort of "grandfather clause" that allows the lands tapped before Vorinclex arrived to be unaffected by his ability for the time being.
December 8, 2020 12:19 a.m.