Sun's Zenith & Panoptic Mirror
Asked by TheJugulator 7 years ago
I was a little confused on if I could use either White Sun's Zenith or Red Sun's Zenith with Panoptic Mirror . After reading the rulings on Panoptic Mirror and looking at a few threads on copying cards with X in the mana cost, I was lost. People said that if you cast the spell and lets say X=3, then if you copy it, you cannot change the value of X. But with Panoptic Mirror you don't cast the spell in the first place, and it says that if there is an X it equals 0. I'm assuming that I could copy the one of the Sun's Zeniths but X would equal 0 so it wouldn't be useful at all.
TheJugulator says... #2
Ok, cool thanks, just want to make sure, I guess I'll just replace White Sun's Zenith for Conqueror's Pledge.
July 7, 2017 4:27 p.m.
Rule of thumb: Any time you are getting free spells (without paying mana cost) then you are unable to use any alternative casting costs or any selective costs (such as costs).
If you are copying a spell that is already on the stack or a permanent that's already in play, you will copy all traits that are currently present in it, besides external objects (like counters).
If a 4/4 wurm token is in play and you cast Giant Growth on it and then copy it, say with the populate from Sundering Growth, that new wurm token copy would be a 7/7 permanently. If you cast a spell on the stack and it's something like Death Cloud, then, again as long as it's on the stack, and say when it was cast was 7, then the copies traits will also reflect = .
Hope that helps your understanding. Copies will pay attention to any inherent traits for something "in play." Free casts only pay attention to the original base CMC. Free casting copies of something not in play will (like with Panoptic Mirror) will be stuck with the original limitation of a free cast.
July 7, 2017 5:14 p.m.
Correction, if you have a 4/4 wurm token in play and cast Giant Growth then copy it, no matter how you copy it, the copy will be a 4/4 wurm token that knows nothing of the Giant Growth that happened to the original. Other than that, the above information mostly correct. You don't copy all traits, you copy the "copiable attributes" which are mostly just card as written, but values for X and additional costs are remembered when copying spells.
Redace878 says... Accepted answer #1
This should go in the Rules Q&A section BTW.
It says right here in the rules for Panoptic Mirror:
"You dont pay the spells mana cost. If the spell has X in its mana cost, X is 0. You do pay any additional costs for that spell. You cant use any alternative costs."
July 7, 2017 4:24 p.m.