Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #2
Shroud only stops a permanent from being targeted by something. You can still sacrifice ir or be made to sacrifice it so long as the effect doesn't target it.
October 4, 2012 12:32 p.m.
So long as the spell or ability that makes you sacrifice the creature does not "target" the "creature", then yes it can.
For example: Barter in Blood does not target anyone, so it can force you to sacrifice 2 creatures of your choice. If a creature with shroud is a possible choice (note that "choosing" is not the same as targeting.), then it can be sacrificed.
As well, a card like card:Geth's Verdict, which does have a target, still does not target the creature directly, so if a creature with shroud is the players only available option, or if the player decides that it is the best option, the creature can still be sacrificed.
October 4, 2012 12:34 p.m.
As stated before: you can sacrifice a creatuer with shroud due to something like card:Geth's Verdict because it does not attempt to target the creature with shroud. On the other side of the coin, something like Ashling, the Extinguisher cannot force you to sacrifice your shrouded creature because Ashling would have to target it.
October 4, 2012 3:27 p.m.
kingboo3000 says... #5
Also, you cannot enchant an opponent's creature that has shroud with something like Pacifism , because the "target"-ing is implied by the rules text for enchanting a creature.
October 4, 2012 3:52 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #6
@kingboo3000: That is only true for enchantment spells that are cast. Auras that enter the battlefield without being cast may be attached to any object it may legally enchant (according to its "enchant __" instructions) and do not target anything.
October 4, 2012 3:57 p.m.
kingboo3000 says... #7
._.
Nuh-uh... Really? That just blew my mind. Das' crazy. Don't get me wrong, I totally believe you, it's just that THAT is so strange. Why would casting it force you to target something, while poofing the enchantment in with Venser, the Sojourner (for example) not have to target anything?
October 4, 2012 4:04 p.m.
When you cast an Aura Enchantment spell it has to target while it's on the stack. If it enters the battlefield through other means, say, Sun Titan for example, it doesn't target. It just enters the battlefield and has to be attached to something it can legally attached to. I don't know the specific reasoning or ruling as to why, maybe Epoch can clarify.
The same thing applies to Zur the Enchanter as well; he is able to slap on an Arrest to a creature with Hexproof/Shroud.
October 4, 2012 4:11 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #9
114.1b Aura spells are always targeted. These are the only permanent spells with targets. An Aura"s target is specified by its enchant keyword ability (see rule 702.5, Enchant). The target(s) are chosen as the spell is cast; see rule 601.2c. An Aura permanent doesn't target anything; only the spell is targeted. (An activated or triggered ability of an Aura permanent can also be targeted.)
303.4f If an Aura is entering the battlefield under a player's control by any means other than by resolving as an Aura spell, and the effect putting it onto the battlefield doesn't specify the object or player the Aura will enchant, that player chooses what it will enchant as the Aura enters the battlefield. The player must choose a legal object or player according to the Aura's enchant ability and any other applicable effects.
October 4, 2012 4:39 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #10
Essentially, it comes from the combination of the following rules:
303.4a An Aura spell requires a target, which is defined by its enchant ability.
303.4f If an Aura is entering the battlefield under a player's control by any means other than by resolving as an Aura spell, and the effect putting it onto the battlefield doesn't specify the object or player the Aura will enchant, that player chooses what it will enchant as the Aura enters the battlefield. The player must choose a legal object or player according to the Aura's enchant ability and any other applicable effects.
October 4, 2012 4:43 p.m.
kingboo3000 says... #11
Ahhh, got it, the Aura "spell" targets something, but the aura permanent does not. Thanks for the clarification guys.
double051 says... #1
Yes
October 4, 2012 12:13 p.m.