Plasm Capture wording and uncounterable spells
Asked by Apoptosis 11 years ago
Plasm Capture states: "Counter target spell. At the beginning of your next precombat main phase, add X mana in any combination of colors to your mana pool, where X is that spell's converted mana cost." Are the two sentences dependent on one another? If not then the 2nd effect of plasma capture should still work against spells that cannot be countered.
For example: Let's say my opponent is mean and casts Supreme Verdict . I respond by casting Plasm Capture targeting Supreme Verdict . Since Supreme Verdict cannot be countered it still resolves, which is fine. However, my Plasm Capture was also able to resolve (just not completely effectively), so at the beginning of my next main phase I should get 4 mana in any combination to use. Correct or does the spell actually have to be countered for me to get the mana?
I don't see anything to implicate that the 2nd sentence of Plasm Capture is dependent on the first sentence in this case because the Plasm Capture did actually resolve.
If a spell can't be countered by spells or abilities, then Plasm Capture can't target the spell at all.
May 8, 2013 11:32 a.m.
I actually think you are correct and will get the mana. I based this on the oracle ruling for Mana Drain , a card that has very similar effect. Here is the ruling:
10/1/2009 If the targeted spell "can't be countered," it remains on the stack. Mana Drain continues to resolve. At the beginning of your next main phase, the delayed triggered ability will still add the mana to your mana pool.
The two are separate sentences and there are no specific words like "if you do" linking them to each other.
May 8, 2013 11:33 a.m.
As far as I know, if the sentences are dependent on each other, there would be an "if". Such as: "Counter target spell. If that spell is countered this way, add X [...]"
If a spell is resolving and some part of it can't come true, it will try to do as much as possible.
Another example would be Beast Within . Even though the permanent is not destroyed, maybe due to it being regenerated or indestructible, a 3/3 token will still come into play.
I could be wrong though.
May 8, 2013 11:34 a.m.
No hang on I was wrong.
Plasm Capture will resolve and not counter the spell since Supreme Verdict can't be countered.
May 8, 2013 11:35 a.m.
Mewgle That's not really quite right. It's perfectly legal to try to counter an uncounterable spell, it's just that upon resolution, nothing will happen, the spell won't be countered.
May 8, 2013 11:36 a.m.
I'm basing this off of the Cloudshift /Fiend Hunter combo. Fiend Hunter 's abilities are two separate abilities and the combo would not work if they were the same ability. I could be wrong, but as far as I know Plasm Capture would not add man unless the spell was countered.
May 8, 2013 11:38 a.m.
Okay so.
Plasm Capture will resolve. Supreme Verdict will not be countered. You will still get the mana from Plasm Capture.
Mana Drain says this (Which is what Plasm Capture is functionally reprinting)
"10/1/2009: If the targeted spell "can't be countered," it remains on the stack. Mana Drain continues to resolve. At the beginning of your next main phase, the delayed triggered ability will still add the mana to your mana pool."
May 8, 2013 11:42 a.m.
And it IS two separate sentences. There's a "." between Counter target spell and the part about the mana.
May 8, 2013 11:45 a.m.
I'll leave this open a bit for more discussion, but I like what I'm hearing. The Mana Drain argument is a strong one.
May 8, 2013 11:45 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #12
"Target spell" in the text of Plasm Capture means it can target any spell on the stack. "Cannot be countered" does not give a spell some special kind of "shroud/hexproof" or anything like that. A card like Supreme Verdict is a legal target for Plasm Capture .
If a resolving effect tries to do something impossible, it just skips that part and keeps resolving normally. If the spell can't be countered, Plasm Capture will still finish resolving completely.
Getting the mana is not conditional on whether the spell was actually countered. If it was, the text of Plasm Capture would have an additional explanation specifically regarding that, like on Fold into AEther or Swift Silence .
May 8, 2013 noon
Thanks to everyone for the great discussion! The value of Plasm Capture just went up in my book.
May 8, 2013 12:10 p.m.
Mana Drain says "target spell" meaning, you do not have to have countered the spell. Plasm Capture does not say target spell. It says "the spell". What spell? The countered one.
May 10, 2013 2:28 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #15
Both Mana Drain and Plasm Capture simply refer to it as "that spell" in the current Oracle text. The reason that getting the mana isn't dependent on countering the spell is because the effect doesn't say it is.
LDCummins says... #1
Same sentence so they are dependant on each other. If the spell isn't countered then there will be no mana generated. think "capture" e.g. take what is theirs.
May 8, 2013 11:30 a.m.