Phantasmal Image + Solemn Simulcrum
Asked by trgoose 13 years ago
If a Phantasmal Image copying a Solemn Simulacrum is targeted, do I get a draw out of it? I guess what I'm asking is when does Phantasmal Image stop being a Solemn Simulacrum ?
Well not really, Phantasmal Image is essentially Clone if the original dies, it is still a copy on the battlefield, it only dies when it becomes the target of an ability, the Solemn Simulacrum has a passive ability so it dosnt trigger the destruction on the illusion text, hence the orginal dies which gets you the card draw but the clone remains until it itself then dies.
August 3, 2011 5:17 p.m.
In this order:
You declare to cast Phantasmal Image , declare Solemn Simulacrum as target and pay the mana cost.
Phantasmal Image goes on the stack (now your opponent could play Mana Leak , Stoic Rebuttal , Cancel etc.).
Now it becomes a Solemn Simulacrum , inherits all its abilities plus the "When this creature becomes the target of a spell or ability, sacrifice it"-Ability.
Since it is a Solemn Simulacrum entering the Battlefield, its landsearch ability goes on the stack (If able your opponent could now prevent that ability from resolving).
You search a basic land and shuffle your library.
Your Phantasmal Image /Solemn Simulacrum becomes the target of a spell.
Let's assume you let that spell resolve.
The Sacrifice ability of your copied Solemn Simulacrum triggers and goes on the stack.
You sacrifice it.
The moment it is PUT into the graveyard it still is a Solemn Simulacrum , so its carddrawing ability goes on the stack (we assume your opponent does nothing about it).
You draw a card.
Finally being in the graveyard, your Phantasmal Image stops being a Solemn Simulacrum and is a Phantasmal Image again.
August 3, 2011 6:17 p.m.
Addendum: As long as your copy is on the battlefield it also is a "Artifact Creature Illusion" receiving any bonuses for artifacts, artifact creatures and illusions you might control.
August 3, 2011 6:23 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #6
Also note that the spell or ability that targets it does not have to resolve. Once Phantasmal Image is targeted by any spell or ability, its sacrifice trigger will go on the stack above whatever is targeting it.
August 3, 2011 10:06 p.m.
Indeed. Thanks for making that specific point clear Epochalyptik.
sigh....it would be so much easier if i could write down my stuff in german ;)
August 4, 2011 3:25 a.m.
xxxxxxCronoxxxxxx says... #10
the first ability will trigger with the phantom but the phantom stops being a copy when it leaves play
so in theiry by the time the ability would trigger, the phantom would nolonger have the ability, and would never trigger
August 4, 2011 4:55 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #11
As has been stated, the Phantasmal Image does retain all abilities of the creature it copies long enough for them to trigger after death. When a creature dies, its last known information is used to check for ability triggers, effects, etc., and according to the properties of clone effects, the basic LKI for Phantasmal Image will be that of the creature it copied.
August 4, 2011 5:13 a.m.
As Epochalyptik said. Or in other words:
The Copy-Ability of the Phantasmal Image stops once it physically is in the graveyard.
The card draw ability of Solemn Simulacrum could also read like this:
"Once Solemn Simulacrum switches Zones from the Battlefield to the Graveyard, draw a card."
So the card draw-abilty triggers the moment it switches, its clone ability stops once it has switched.
It may only be a nanosecond of difference, but it is an important nanosecond.
August 4, 2011 6:09 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #13
I know this question has been answered correctly already, but I just wanted to clarify that you don't have to split milliseconds to explain the logic behind why you draw a card from the dying copy. The rule about "leaves the battlefield" triggered abilities (like that of Solemn Simulacrum ) is that they trigger from the battlefield, and the game uses the last-known-information about the permanent as it existed on the battlefield. Because the Image was a Simulacrum when it was on the battlefield, it had the ability at the time it was supposed to trigger.
August 4, 2011 12:35 p.m.
xxxxxxCronoxxxxxx says... #14
i think the bigist confusion is that the 2 older virsions that most people use has the ability saying "when its put into a graveyard from play/"the battlefield"
and the newst virsion just says "when it dies"
now it if just said when it leaves play/"battlefield" there would be no confusion
August 5, 2011 2:49 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #15
I don't see how that would make things any clearer. Actually, that would allow the death trigger to go off if it were exiled, which is not what the card does.
August 5, 2011 3:09 a.m.
xxxxxxCronoxxxxxx says... #16
thats were people are getting confusedthe 2 are diffrent but sound the same
BrightGreenLine says... #1
Phantasmal Image stops being a copy of something after it has finished moving to the graveyard. When a Phantasmal Image that has copied something else dies it dies as that other creature, so any triggers and other effects will apply to that death.
In this case, if you Image'd a Solemn Simulacrum you'd get to both search for a land when it entered, and draw another card when it dies.
August 3, 2011 3:55 p.m.