interaction between Peregrin Took and Academy Manufactor
Asked by YStar27 1 year ago
if i create a token with Peregrin Took and Academy Manufactor out will i make infinite clues foods and treasures because every time i make a token i create an additional food from Peregrin Took and Academy Manufactor will then create a clue and treasure and start this loop again? i know these are replacement effects and it probably doesn't work like this but how does it work?
thanks
Gidgetimer says... #2
While it may be helpful to refer to replacement effects "triggering" and "resolving" it is important to remember that they actually do neither. Replacement effects replace one game event with another without using the stack and can only apply to any one event a single time.
For a clue, food, or treasure applying the replacements in the optimal order will yield you 2 clues, 2 food, and 2 treasure (Applied order is Peregrin then Manufactor as wallisface explained above)
For a clue, food, or treasure applying the replacements in the sub-optimal order will yield you 1 clue, 2 food, and 1 treasure (Applied order is Manufactor then Peregrin, again as wallisface explained above)
For any token that is not a clue, food, or treasure will yield 1 clue, 1 food, 1 treasure, and the original token(s) (only possible order to apply is Peregrin then Manufactor)
July 3, 2023 5:17 p.m.
Readingrainbow32 says... #3
Peregrin took is a circular argument. You have to read the entire card.
If one or more tokens would be created under your control, THOSE TOKENS PLUS and additional food token are created instead. The entire care negates itself.
July 23, 2024 5:04 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #4
I'm sorry, it is unclear what you are saying. Are you trying to contradict wallisface and myself or are you providing further support to what we said?
July 23, 2024 10:28 p.m.
Readingrainbow32 says... #5
I’m not doing either I’m saying the way those two cards are structured contradict the game rules.
Let’s say hornet queen is played. It says create 4 tokens Peregrin took activates creating a food. Chatterfang activates creating 5 squirrel tokens. Well those are newly created tokens so by the way those cards are written peregrin took creates another food token. Well that there is an entirely new token so chatterfang creates a squirrel. Even if you resolved both cards at the same time at the beginning it still has the same out come. I understand what the spirit of the game is and what the rules say, however, basic English language says this is an infinite that wotc needs to correct when they reprint (if they reprint).
July 25, 2024 6:12 p.m.
Readingrainbow32 Unfortunately, cards aren't written in basic English. They're written in Magic-ese, which has some key differences.
As you mentioned, you understand what the rules say. The rules state, as wallisface and Gidgetimer mention, that each replacement effect applies only to the original event, and only once. Magic-ese has very precise and technical vocabulary and grammar, guided exclusively by the rules of the game, not by basic English.
By your description, all additive or multiplicative replacement effects would be unusable with each other. Embermaw Hellion and Mechanized Warfare would infinitely add 1 damage to any original source, Alhammarret's Archive and Boon Reflection would infinitely double any life gain, and so on. The rules of M:tG, and by extension the grammar and vocabulary of Magic-ese, allow these card combinations to be used without breaking the game.
wallisface says... Accepted answer #1
Nah as they are replacement effects you choose the order they’re resolved in, but they won’t trigger infinitely off each other.
Example, where you make a single Clue, you could do one if the following:
Have Peregrin Took resolve first, making it a Clue and a Food, and then have Academy Manufactor make that into 2 Food, 2 Clues, and 2 Treasure instead.
Have Academy Manufactor resolve first, replacing it with a Clue, a Food, and a Treasure, and then have Peregrin Took add an additional Food (making a Clue, a Treasure, and 2 Food total).
July 3, 2023 4:26 p.m.