How do Planeswalkers interract with Solitary Confinement?
Asked by He_Who_Seizes_Thoughtseize 12 years ago
In my playgroup, there is a Superfriends deck that uses Solitary Confinement to attempt to protect it's Planewalkers. However, our group has some discrepancies in the resolution of the interaction, since some people say damage is dealt to the Player then redirected to the Planeswalker, which the enchantment would then nullify, and others disagree. How would the two permanents interact in situations such as:
-Player A attacks Player B's Elspeth with Solitary Confinement in play.
-Player A Lightning Bolt s Player B's Elspeth with Solitary Confinement in play.
-Player A casts Fireball targeting Player C and Player B's Elspeth with Solitary Confinement in play.
Thanks everyone for the answers :D
GoldGhost012 says... #2
Scenarios 2 and 3 (Lightning Bolt and Fireball ) do not work. You cannot target damage to a Planeswalker with a burn spell without first targeting the player, then redirecting the spells to the walker. Since Player B can't be the target of spells or abilities, you cannot burn his Elspeth with those spells.
Scenario 1 is legit, because nothing in the ability of Solitary Confinement prevents attacks.
Note that Solitary Confinement does not protect the Planeswalker from removal spells and abilities such as Lux Cannon and Dreadbore .
November 27, 2013 9:42 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #3
Damage redirection to planeswalkers is only for non-combat damage. For combat, creatures either attack a player directly or attack a planeswalker directly. Solitary Confinement can protect planeswalkers from non-combat damage, but it doesn't offer any defense against creatures attacking those planeswalkers.
November 27, 2013 9:42 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #4
Creatures can attack either an opponent or a planeswalker an opponent controls. You have to announce which creatures are attacking which players/planeswalkers during the declare attackers step. Solitary Confinement doesn't stop combat damage that would be dealt to planeswalkers.
In order to burn an opponent's planeswalker, you need to redirect noncombat damage from that player to a planeswalker he or she controls. You do this via the planeswalker redirection rule. You don't actually target the planeswalker itself unless the spell allows for that (e.g. Dreadbore , Hero's Downfall ).
Because there are multiple replacement effects in this scenario (Solitary Confinement 's prevention effect and the planeswalker redirection rule), the affected player chooses the order in which they apply. In this case, the affected player is the one who would be dealt damage (Player B).
Player B announce which replacement effect he or she is applying first. If he or she applies Solitary Confinement 's replacement effect first, then the damage is prevented and the planeswalker redirection rule can no longer apply. If he or she applies the planeswalker redirection rule first, then Player A chooses whether he or she wants to redirect the damage to a planeswalker Player A controls. If he or she doesn't, Solitary Confinement 's replacement effect prevents the damage because it would still be dealt to Player B.
Note that because Lightning Bolt and Fireball can't target planeswalkers, they need to target players and then have their damage redirected. Because Solitary Confinement gives Player B shroud, spells and abilities can't even target Player B. You'd need a spell or ability that can target the planeswalker directly.
November 27, 2013 9:42 p.m.
Tradeylouish says... #5
Fanatic of Mogis is an example of a card that would make the ordering of the replacement effects relevant.
November 27, 2013 9:47 p.m.
For combat damage, it should go directly to the planeswalker, so damage prevention for the player is immaterial.For direct damage (i.e. Lightning Bolt or Fireball ) the damage dealt is prevented, but it's assigned (and redirected to the planeswalker) prior to being dealt. Keep in mind, for fireball, the planeswalker wouldn't be a separate target. At least, I think I'm right :)
November 27, 2013 9:54 p.m.
Tradeylouish says... #7
That's not entirely correct. Because Solitary Confinement gives its controller shroud, they can't be targeted by spells like Lightning Bolt , so it can't be redirected to the planeswalker. In the case of non-targeted, noncombat damage that would be dealt to the player, the two replacement effects must be ordered, as described above by Epochalyptik.
November 27, 2013 10:10 p.m.
Yeah, I totally glossed over the shroud aspect. It precludes targeting the player, thus no damage can be assigned or redirected though targeted effects. One should be able to use something like Guttersnipe to get around that, though.
November 27, 2013 11:08 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #9
@Dracoson: Epochalyptik's response explains why Solitary Confinement will still protect the planeswalker from noncombat damage, unless its controller really wants it to take damage for some reason.
JWiley129 says... #1
From my knowledge of the rules I can safely answer the second two questions, the first one I'm not so sure on. When you want to damage planeswalkers via spells like Lightning Bolt you are targeting the player and then redirecting the damage to the planeswalker. So Player A would be unable to target Player B with either Lightning Bolt or Fireball to then redirect the damage to Elspeth.
However I don't think that Solitary Confinement would stop damage from attacking creatures to planeswalkers since the damage is not being done to Player B.
November 27, 2013 9:37 p.m.