Green Sun's Zenith and X cost
Asked by joga 13 years ago
if I use GSZ with X = 8, can i grab a Primordial Hydra with 8 +1/+1 on it?
Any x is treated as 0. x in the title generally means that it must be kicked (x being the infinite possible value for however much mana you can pump it for) for it to have any affect on the field. This makes primordial hydra a 2 mana cost creature.
For example: if you use quick silver amulet (4 mana tap, put a creature from your hand on the battle field) Primordial Hydra will come out with 0 counters, and instantly die. the same is with Green suns zenith.
Also, Putting creatures on the battlefield is different from casting them. You may only kick a card if you are casting it.
September 1, 2011 10:41 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #3
Primordial Hydra doesn't have any kicker costs (none of its text uses the "kicker" or "multikicker" keywords). The X is a variable in its mana cost, and X in a mana cost only has a nonzero value while the card is a spell on the stack.
September 1, 2011 10:51 a.m.
While it doesn't use the word kicker and isn't technically one, Explaining it as a kick cost is a great way to understand it. Both a multi-kicker and X work in the same ways.
September 1, 2011 10:55 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #5
If something is relatively simple, it's better to explain the way it actually works, rather than the way something similar but different works instead. It just avoids a lot of confusion down the road.
September 1, 2011 11:58 a.m.
Kickers (and by extension, multikickers) do not work the same way as a variable mana cost.
Everflowing Chalice has a converted mana cost of zero at all times, no matter how many times it is kicked. Primordial Hydra , on the other hand, will have a converted mana cost of 8 on the stack if X=6, and a converted mana cost of 2 in every other zone.
September 1, 2011 2:34 p.m.
Cyber Locc says... #7
so can you pay the kicker when using animate dead or no cause your still casting it
February 1, 2012 1:59 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #8
Animate Dead doesn't cause you to cast the creature card, and it has no inherent kicker.
February 1, 2012 2:04 a.m.
Cyber Locc says... #9
your right my bad okay how bout breathe of life then it says take any one summon creature and put that card into play treat it as thiough it were played from your hand now i may be wrong but i think that means a kicker i mean it says it on the card
February 1, 2012 11:59 p.m.
Cyber Locc says... #10
okay so it only says that on the portals version so would the kicker thing only work with the portal version
February 2, 2012 12:04 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #11
Breath of Life's original text was somewhat misleading. Its current Oracle text simply says "return target creature card from your graveyard to the battlefield."
Note that again, the effect does not cause you to actually cast the card. Since you can only pay for kicker costs as you cast a spell, it is impossible to pay for them when using a non-cast effect to put them onto the battlefield.
If you used Havengul Lich's ability, you would have to cast the card. In this case, you may pay for kicker costs.
February 2, 2012 12:05 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #12
That is a dangerously incorrect way to interpret the printing disparities. All cards, regardless of time of printing, have up-to-date Oracle texts that can be found on databases like Gatherer and magiccards.info, and these Oracle texts are uniform for all printings. Cards ALWAYS operate based on their Oracle text.
Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #1
No. The value of X while a spell is not on the stack is 0. Also, Green Sun's Zenith does not allow you to cast the creature it finds, so you never get the chance to pay the X in its mana cost.
107.3a If a spell or activated ability has a mana cost, alternative cost, additional cost, and/or activation cost with an X, [-X], or X in it, and the value of X isnt defined by the text of that spell or ability, the controller of that spell or ability chooses and announces the value of X as part of casting the spell or activating the ability. (See rule 601, "Casting Spells.") While a spell is on the stack, any X in its mana cost equals the announced value. While an activated ability is on the stack, any X in its activation cost equals the announced value.
107.3f If a card in any zone other than the stack has an X in its mana cost, the value of X is treated as 0, even if the value of X is defined somewhere within its text.
September 1, 2011 2:33 a.m.