Does sacrificing uses the stack?
Asked by ThiagoMaia 13 years ago
I know that if it is the cst of activated ability sacrificing can be done at any time. But what about as the cost to flashback dread return?
For example, if I have Precursor Golem on the battlefield with both tokens, and a Dread Return on the graveyard, my opponent than targets my golens with a Doom Blade . Can I in response sac the golens for the flashback?
And if not, in case I have aleyline-of-antecipation would it work?
The sacrifice part of Dread Return is the cost to cast it from your graveyard. It is treated the same as any other cost for a spell, and the casting follows all restrictions normally placed on casting a spell, in this case the fact that Dread Return is a sorcery and can only be cast when the stack is empty. If you had Leyline of Anticipation down then sure, you could sacrifice them in response to all the Doom Blades being put on the stack (and since it's the cost for casting a spell, your opponent can't respond with another kill spell at them =D)
September 10, 2011 8:18 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #3
Any time something is paid or done as a cost to activate an ability or cast a spell, it does not use the stack and cannot be responded to.
Therefore, a sacrifice made to pay a cost (such as Dread Return 's flashback ability), is not something that you can respond to.
Flashback is an ability which allows you to cast something from your graveyard by paying a certain cost. Flashback still causes you to follow the timing restrictions on the card, so you may not cast a sorcery any time you would not be able to normally.
Leyline of Anticipation allows you to cast sorceries at instant-speed, so you may cast Dread Return at any time you have priority so long as Leyline is out and there are no restrictions preventing you from casting spells.
702.32a Flashback appears on some instants and sorceries. It represents two static abilities: one that functions while the card is in a player's graveyard and the other that functions while the card is on the stack. "Flashback [cost]" means "You may cast this card from your graveyard by paying [cost] rather than paying its mana cost" and "If the flashback cost was paid, exile this card instead of putting it anywhere else any time it would leave the stack." Casting a spell using its flashback ability follows the rules for paying alternative costs in rules 601.2b and 601.2eg.
September 10, 2011 8:42 p.m.
xxxxxxCronoxxxxxx says... #4
if you had leyline of anticipation out you could dread return's flashback cost at instant speed or use any other instant speed spell or ability thats requires a sac to kill off your creature and make the doom blade fizzel evenchuly
how ever what the other guys have failed to mention is that it will not stop the doom blade from being copyed to the rest of your creatures
just as you cant respond to the casting cost of a spell or the activation cost of an ability,
you can not respont to the trigger of an ability
when he payed the casting cost of the doom blade and decared the golem the target (all of wich you can not respond to),
the Precursor golem's 2nd ability
(oracle text Whenever a player casts an instant or sorcery spell that targets only a single Golem, that player copies that spell for each other Golem that spell could target. Each copy targets a different one of those Golems.)
will trigger and put onto the stack, even if you kill the precursor golem at the first chance after doom blade is played, its ability will stay on the stack and resolve creating copys before the original doom blade fizzels
other relevent oracle rules
1/1/2011 The second ability triggers whenever a player casts an instant or sorcery spell that targets only one Golem. That Golem can be Precursor Golem itself, one of the Golem tokens it created, or any other Golem. It doesn't matter who controls the Golem.
1/1/2011 The copies that Precursor Golem's second ability creates are created on the stack, so they're not "cast." Abilities that trigger when a player casts a spell (like Precursor Golem's second ability itself) won't trigger.
September 11, 2011 6:49 a.m.
ThiagoMaia says... #5
Thanks
Cronos, I know it wouldn't stop the copies, on the example I would sacall the golens
September 11, 2011 9:16 a.m.
Rabidsquirrel99 says... #6
Then, you play another precursor and target a golem in a graveyard with dread return, and all the golems return! Yay!
September 11, 2011 11:41 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #7
Wrong. Precursor Golem 's effect applies to Golems that are on the battlefield. Unless an effect applying to a type specifically uses the word "card", it only affects permanents of that type. Therefore, Dread Return on a Golem card in a graveyard will not cause it to target all Golem cards in graveyards even if you have Precursor Golem out.
September 11, 2011 11:49 p.m.
I feel I should point out that Crono is absolutely wrong when he says that you can't respond to a triggered ability. A triggered ability goes on the stack just like a spell or an activated ability, so of course you can respond to it.
You control Leyline of Anticipation and Dread Return is in your graveyard (with a creature card to target). You also control a Precursor Golem and the two tokens he made. The opponent targets your Precursor Golem with Doom Blade .
This can play out in two different ways.First;
Doom Blade targets your Precursor Golem The spell-copying triggered ability goes on the stack.In response to the ability, you flashback Dread Return , sacrificing the Precursor and the two tokens to pay the cost.The opponent passes and allows Dread Return to resolve. The creature in your graveyard returns to the battlefield.The spell-copying triggered ability of Precursor Golem resloves. Assuming the returned creature is not a golem, there are no other golems to target, so the ability does nothing.The Doom Blade tries to resolve. Its target is no longer on the battlefield, so it is countered by game rules (it fizzles).
Alternately
Doom Blade targets your Precursor Golem The spell-copying triggered ability goes on the stack.You and the opponent each pass, so two copies of Doom Blade are placed on the stack, each targeting one of your golem tokens.You will receive priority again before any of the Doom Blade copies resolves. When you do, sacrifice the Precursor Golem and the two tokens to cast Dread Return .The opponent passes and allows Dread Return to resolve. The creature in your graveyard returns to the battlefield.The 3 Doom Blade s then try to resolve in turn. Each one will be countered by game rules because their targets are no longer on the battlefield (they fizzle).
Either of these processes allows you to Dread Return a creature and save all 3 of your golems from Doom Blade (it would also work against Lightning Bolt , Shatter , etc.) It makes no difference to the end result what order you use.
Lastly, I don't mean to be rude to anyone, but please try to use proper spelling and grammar in your explanations. A long passage full of spelling mistakes can be more confusing than the comprehensive Magic rulebook.
September 15, 2011 11:30 p.m.
xxxxxxCronoxxxxxx says... #11
i did not say that you could not respond to the ability
what i did say was that you could not respond to the trigger of the ability
the trigger of a triggered ability is an event determened by the ability that must happen before the ability can be put onto the stack
and what i was pointing out was that you could not sack the golem to save any of your other golems, they will all die one way or another
also you can not sack the golems and/or play dread return if there are no legal targets for it
ThiagoMaia says... #1
Leyline of Anticipation
September 10, 2011 8:06 p.m.